Is the Advice we are giving safe ?

[ELM]

Is the Advice we are giving safe ?
Edit: seems my English is poor !!
Well for me personally, IMHO, not very !!!

I know many of you disagree with my ideas in regard to what's safe and what isn't, but I sit back and read some of the replies to safety questions and think you F$#@&*g Idiot !!! How can you give such foolish advice and worse yet, believe it is not so bad.

If I appear to be a bit of a dictator and have in any way upset you, then I apologise, after all it is your choice.

When I started to fish from the kayak on PPB only a few years ago I had some idea of water temps etc from my limited scuba diving, I also thought I had some idea as to what's involved from fishing from a canoe up on the Murray, how wrong I now feel I was and how quick things can change.
Looking for better ideas and more knowledge I realised that a lot of the information on kayak fishing forums was very broad yet on the ocean kayak forums and web sites, much more designed and uniform, similar from site to site, country to country. They all seem to be organised groups (ocean kayaks) with dress policies, training programs and levels of accreditation.

I have no intention to dictate who / what / why, should be used or listened too. What I will ask is your thoughts ?

Is the Advise we are giving safe ?

If no, what do we do about it and how do we make it safe ?

What topics do we need to cover ?

If no, Hmmm I guess I will just have to try and pull my head in !!! fat chance

Barking dogs, go blunt your teeth some where else, I am not looking for a brawl, I am after constructive criticism, and please no naming names of blame, it will get us know where.

[fishsmith]

I need an example or two Eddie to get my head around what your talking about.

[bilby]

At the end of the day, all we can do is advice to what "we (the adviser) believe's" is the right advice. We are all mostly adults and should have some prior knowledge of the effects of winds/ tides, wind against tide, basic watercraft etc, before we even contemplate going out in a kayak . If you don't understand that, you Shouldn't be going out in the bay period , start off in the Patto, or protected waters somewhere where you can learn this stuff.
I don't think anyone should take offence to your posts Elm, as we all know your very passionate about safety and maybe you have already avoided a un thinkable incident with your posts without the person even knowing.
I believe everyone (that doesn't hold a boat licence ) should read the boat licence handbook before going out in a yak for the first time, just to familiarise themselves with things like bouys, basic navigation, what personal safety equipment is mandatory etc.
I can only speak for myself here, but i won't post on a topic if i havent tried it or attempted it myself first, i think a lot of people take too much for granted on any internet forum (not just this site) so i say get out there, listen and learn, read books, talk to people more experienced (everyone was a newbie at some stage) and above all don't go out if it don't look right.
Cheers Bilby.

[ELM]

I need an example or two Eddie to get my head around what your talking about.

Clothing, what we advice to wear when on the water ?
Recovery practises ?
Equipment ?
Training ?

Anything you believe should come under safety.

For me, IMHO, protective clothing is a big one.
Recovery and assistance, limited.
Equipment is a reasonably strong point.
Training, well we have no insurance or instructors, so nil.
Conditions, not bad.

I don't wish to name specifics as I do not want a blame game argument. Its whether you personally think the advise you have seen is safe good advice.

[HaTTerS]

Not all advice given on this and other yak sites is safe.

The problem (not necessarily a bad thing) is lack of regulations. As an example:
We all know PFD's are a legal requirement, so there is never an argument as to whether you should wear one or not. However, there are no rules regarding what other clothing you have to wear, so everything else is up for debate.

If someone asks a question, I just tell them what I do and perhaps give them some reasons why. I don't say "thou shalt do as I do". I give people an option and they can make the decision whether they want to do the same or similar or not at all. I have no right to enforce it.

I know where you're coming from Elm. Once you are ACTUALLY in a bad situation, you learn more then you could have ever planned for.

[GoneFishn]

The thing that worries me is you give people the advice and they do the opposite I know of guys out there (new to the sport) who haven't even attempted a re-entry in deep water .
Eddie you should have nothing to worry about the advise you have been giving in regards to safety as it is all very relevant and very important. I really don’t think people realise how dangerous our sport can be, especially during winter.

Is all the advice safe that we give? No.

What do we do?
Maybe at the East meets West or other large gatherings we can have some literature on recommended safety equipment and clothing.
Organise days for practising un-assisted and assisted re-entries.

[Bozzie]

I think of it as more of an opinion. Not being a proffesional (insert appropriate word), but having experianced life in general, as well as fishing for well over 50 years, I have a few opinions about (insert appropriate word). I like to read other peoples opinions, and digest the pro's and con's, then make up my own mind. I hope most of you would do the same.

[mingle]

It's not really advice, in the way a medical professional (or other qualified person) would provide...

It's just people's suggestions and/or opinions... What's good for one person may not be good for another...

So I don't think there's any issue/problems at all...

If someone says "I go out into gales in the middle of PPB wearing a pink tu-tu, green gumboots sitting on-top of an old inner-tube" and another forum member follows that suggestion and ends up at the bottom of the bay, then I say they deserved it

Common sense is a valuable commodity sometimes...

Mike.

[HaTTerS]

I think of it as more of an opinion. Not being a proffesional (insert appropriate word), but having experianced life in general, as well as fishing for well over 50 years, I have a few opinions about (insert appropriate word). I like to read other peoples opinions, and digest the pro's and con's, then make up my own mind. I hope most of you would do the same.

Agreed

It's not really advice, in the way a medical professional (or other qualified person) would provide...

It's just people's suggestions and/or opinions... What's good for one person may not be good for another...

So I don't think there's any issue/problems at all...

If someone says "I go out into gales in the middle of PPB wearing a pink tu-tu, green gumboots sitting on-top of an old inner-tube" and another forum member follows that suggestion and ends up at the bottom of the bay, then I say they deserved it

Common sense is a valuable commodity sometimes...

Mike.

Agreed

[ELM]

Edit: an un-intentional quote was included, and my apologies to bozzie, as stated at the start of this thread, it is not my intention to attack anyone, I care for my sport and those that participate in it. My only wish is to see if we can make things better in regard to safety through an open non aggressive debate.

It's not really advice, in the way a medical professional (or other qualified person) would provide...

It's just people's suggestions and/or opinions... What's good for one person may not be good for another...

So I don't think there's any issue/problems at all...

If someone says "I go out into gales in the middle of PPB wearing a pink tu-tu, green gumboots sitting on-top of an old inner-tube" and another forum member follows that suggestion and ends up at the bottom of the bay, then I say they deserved it

Common sense is a valuable commodity sometimes...

Mike.

Agreed

So if some young kid who's parent's don't give a S#!^, takes some of the (IMHO) fairly dangerous "advice" (and if you are telling someone I wear it, its safe, it is "advice") and that poor kid drowns. You have no remorse ??? He deserved it !!!!!!!!!!!! What if his folks bought him the kayak to just get him out of their hair, I suppose you could say you did the folks a favour and that justifies it !!!!
Edit; I should add, I truly doubt you mean that, but could be perceived that way !!!

And yes I just realised I have been spelling it advise and not advice , so I never learnt to spell Shoot me!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Will you have the same argument when sitting before a government body after they have moved in and begun to regulate what we can and cannot do, where we can and cannot go ? or worse still, sitting before a judge ?

Remember, this is a public domain that both (we hope) mature adults, and immature young people are trying to learn from!!!!!