How Do You Lose A Shark Or Big Pelargic?

General offshore yakking discussion.
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outback paul
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How Do You Lose A Shark Or Big Pelargic?

Post by outback paul »

I'm wondering what's the best strategy for ending a long struggle with a shark or large pelargic, in a situation where you are either being towed out to sea (as per Peatop at NSC20), or just simply running out of energy? Unfortunately I've never hooked anything apart from large rays so far, but with a trip to South West Rocks in a few weeks I thought I should ask the question.
I don't want to end up spooled, then having to cut the line, leaving the fish trailing 300 metres of braid around the ocean.
I would assume that sharks with teeth will bite through a mono or fluoro leader, so would hope that solves that problem, but what about fish that don't bite through the leader?
Should I have a length of wind on leader of a low enough breaking strain to be comfortable that if I lock up the drag, and lock the reel with my hand, the leader will snap if I want to lose the fish without losing a spool of braid (or ending up 10k out to sea)?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts :up:
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Re: How Do You Lose A Shark Or Big Pelargic?

Post by peatop »

Hi paul, my hooking of the 2nd shark could have ended at multiple times with just the hook, leader and some wind on leader left in it's mouth, after setting the hook it made straight for the bottom so i thought damn big king going to reef me, so i applied more drag more pressure and thats when it took off out to sea at a great rate, i was using a 2 speed overhead and i just maxed the drag and played it and when needed i switched the cranking power to gain more line and was able to get on top of it and just bring it up till the wind on was on the real but thats when it always took off, the only reason i let it take me so far was i wanted to know what it was ;) i could have cut the wind on maybe 100m from hookup which it what i will do now i know the characteristics of bronzies.

Some of the thoughts i had during the fight was next time i get leader do i cut? This was an often thought, will my line break and where if i put max hurt on this fish? And one you've mentioned should i have put lighter leader on? Or should i put heavier braid on? Yes both good options for an intended weak link.

After watching countless videos on pelagics and runs i decided that overhead reels where more desirable for this type of fishing and setup 2 rods just for this purpose, hence the 2 speed overheads ;) now this is not to say that you can't still use your spin outfits and if you saw my setups i carry upto 6 setups only 2 with overheads, however the bigger heavy setups have the same line setup but carry a lot less line for the size of the reel, but still more than enough that i shouldn't get spooled i hope.

In all videos I've watch that being spooled was an issue it was usually that the hookup was on a setup meant for smalker targets eg tuna on a snapper outfit, others would be big big fish on smallers outfits, i do like the idea of a safety link in the business end being lighter wind on but i couldn't break my line, my drag was maxed and i was often railed. But others with far more experience will have good ideas like pedalling/paddling after the fish to gain your line back is often used :thumbsup:
Mob no: 0401580668
Yak PBs kingfish (about this big <>>><), squid 39 cm, king george 42 cm, snapper 72 cm, gummy 122 cm, 71cm flatty (estimated ) Cobia 133cm
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4liters
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Re: How Do You Lose A Shark Or Big Pelargic?

Post by 4liters »

Option 1: Stop being a pussy and stick a gaff in that bronzie

Option 2: Use a shark saver rig. Essentially your mainline terminates in a sinker, and the leader is clipped onto the mainline above the sinker. The sinker is wider than the clip and acts as a stopper so the clip can't be pulled over the sinker while fighting the fish. Should the mainline be cut, the weight of the sinker pulls the mainline through the clip, leaving the fish with just the leader attached. Something like a Busted Fishing pulley rig bead would work instead of a clip too.
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Re: How Do You Lose A Shark Or Big Pelargic?

Post by Galey »

4liters wrote:Option 1: Stop being a pussy and stick a gaff in that bronzie
:lol:
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Re: How Do You Lose A Shark Or Big Pelargic?

Post by Fish Grylls »

Most of the sharks at SWR and there was a few either busted you off or bit you off. My policy with rays and sharks that I want to bust off is to give them as much curry as I can and generally something will give near the hook or the swivel. Best to use your hand to lock the reel instead of the drag tightened up as a big run can result in the rod being wrenched out of hands or tipping the yak. If you are getting dragged along you can slow them by the angle you are fighting them. Rod over the bow results in getting pulled along in the direction the fish is taking you. Rod to the side and you are providing more resistance and easier to turn them.
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Re: How Do You Lose A Shark Or Big Pelargic?

Post by shane »

First of all at SWR you should always be rigging with a long wind on leader section between the braid and the leader to the hook. Typical rig would be 20/30/50lb braid connected to 20-30m of 30-40lb mono with an FG knot. Then connect the mono to a fluro leader with a small/strong black swivel or a knot like a triple surgeons. Then the hook or wire rig on the end of the 40-80lb fluro leader, depending on what you are targeting. For marlin, mahi mahi, tuna, jewfish, kings etc it's typically fluro to the hook. For spanish and spotted mackerel or wahoo it's a small swivel then single strand wire (30-50lb) to the hook and usually a wire stinger hook as well. I'll teach you how to make these rigs if you don't already know.

The reason for the long wind on leader is that you need more stretch than braid can provide if you hook a marlin but also need the line capacity that braid gives. This setup will also create weak points near the business end of the rig so that any bust offs won't leave a fish trailing heaps of braid.

Often when you hook a shark you will know what it is as they typically fight differntly to most target species. But sometimes you have to fight them for a while to be sure (particularly hammerheads and reefies that can be very fast and manouverable, unlike tigers, bulls and bronzies). Often a shark will bite through even when using wire or they will bust off the rig near the hook. But if you want to bust one off, my preferred method is to point the kayak and the rod at the fish and hold the spool until the rig breaks at a weak point. You get some days where you will encounter multiple sharks and they can waste a huge amount of time (sometimes over an hour) unless you can get rid of them promptly once identified.

It pays to come prepared with spare rods or rigs so you can get going again quickly after being busted off. This also applies to mackerel as you will lose more rigs to mackerel bite-offs than you will to sharks.
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outback paul
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Re: How Do You Lose A Shark Or Big Pelargic?

Post by outback paul »

Thanks guys,
I really appreciate all your detailed advice.
As my three heaviest reels are all spooled with 50lb braid, I can set them up with 30lb or 40lb mono wind-on leaders as Shane suggests, and be pretty confident that when something gives, it won't be the braid. With any luck the weakest point should be where the wind-on leader meets the heavier Fluoro leader. :thumbsup:

PS. I'd better learn how to tie an FG knot on the water, just in case it fails there.
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Re: How Do You Lose A Shark Or Big Pelargic?

Post by peatop »

outback paul wrote:Thanks guys,
I really appreciate all your detailed advice.
As my three heaviest reels are all spooled with 50lb braid, I can set them up with 30lb or 40lb mono wind-on leaders as Shane suggests, and be pretty confident that when something gives, it won't be the braid. With any luck the weakest point should be where the wind-on leader meets the heavier Fluoro leader. :thumbsup:

PS. I'd better learn how to tie an FG knot on the water, just in case it fails there.
I watched a video on using the tool for tying the FG knot and it looks to make it real easy, since starting to use braid I've used several methods for the FG but the last one is the best and easiest I've found so far, search it on YouTube Briggsy's FG Knot, I've been tying it like this for ages but i like how he finishes the knot of, although i haven't yet tied one one the yak i think unless it's like it was saterday afternoon at NSC then it's easy doable :thumbsup:
Mob no: 0401580668
Yak PBs kingfish (about this big <>>><), squid 39 cm, king george 42 cm, snapper 72 cm, gummy 122 cm, 71cm flatty (estimated ) Cobia 133cm
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outback paul
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Re: How Do You Lose A Shark Or Big Pelargic?

Post by outback paul »

Thanks Pete, will check it out :up:
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Re: How Do You Lose A Shark Or Big Pelargic?

Post by peatop »

Somehing else to give thought to is while out on the water do you really want to spend the time tying the FG knot? Something that often comes up it that the most common time you break this type of join is when your in the thick of it (the bite is on) do/will you want to stop to tye that perfect FG knot? Probably not! What next? The double uni is often then the goto knot mentioned. In saying that I've already said as have others carry a couple of extra setups, myself i carry 4 heavy rods when trolling 2 specifically setup as trolling rods (new) 2 setup as drop over the side rods that can and do get used as trolling rods which was what i used before buying the overheads.

Everyone thinks differently and this is our individual thinking on how we think we should setup for our fishing time on the water, my thoughts are you are permitted 4 rods in the water on the bays and ocean per person then i have 4 rods that can possibly be in the water but then need other rods for other setups, my idea of 3 rods of each class, light, medium and heavy allows for 3 of one class and one of another class in the water at one time. In general this works for me however in the pelagic class when the fish are on you want rods at the ready, when chasing pelagics 4 rods in the water on a kayak is/could be trouble waiting to happen that is unless you are lucky, a quick thinker or don't mind tangles, my second year chasing pelagics im starting to find now 3 rods work better than 4 in most cases on my PA, the 2 in the rear holders and one for my hand/front rod holder with others setup in the storage racks ready to go after bust/bite offs, once or twice the lighter setup has been mentioned carried in the storage setup just for casting at bustups this really made my mind go into overdrive :shock: damn this is a very valid statement, why don't i have this setup? Do i have a setup i can use? What is required for this type of setup?

All my new rods are ugly stiks all my reels are not slammers but the equivalent for one reason thats what i chose for my budget ;) to upgrade to before upgrading to something better, do i need to upgrade to something better? In most cases no! Ugly stiks are fine for the table fish but if you have a specific purpose in mined then a specific setup might be needed (rod and reel) this is where you really need to know or have access to guided knowledge on what you intend to do specifically, after talking to several people the general consensus was that none of my setups would be the preferred setup for this specific purpose. Now that i have all my $50-$75 reels and rods purchased i can now focus on upgrading those that need upgrading spin reels aint spin reels, spin rods aint spin rods, when casting certain rods perform better than others, if im going to be casting at bustups then i want a rod that will cast as far as possible ;) if im retrieving i need a reel that can retrieve line at the speed required to get the hookup ;) then another thought "move it or loose it" this setup won't get used as often as the others should the real be sealed? Maybe it should, the reason unsealed reels suffer apart from lack of maintenance is lack of use the salt just sits inside working away at what it does best, this setup used for casting at bustups could easily become one of the medium setups, this would solve that issue.

Sorry i didn't mean to fill your head with so much information and some off topic but it's about thinking what do i really need if im going to do this type of fishing, and im terrible at writing and summerising :cry: :lol:
Mob no: 0401580668
Yak PBs kingfish (about this big <>>><), squid 39 cm, king george 42 cm, snapper 72 cm, gummy 122 cm, 71cm flatty (estimated ) Cobia 133cm
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