Safety under sail

[Tormentor]

I felt I needed to post a little warning to us all I may have beaten Elm to the line this time I'll have to check...

If anyone has got anything to add I'd be happy to collate the information for a sticky post to head up this section...(Mods agreeing of course)

Many of the guys on here are enthusiastic and very inventive, many are knowledgeable and experienced. Some are easily influenced and because we don't always know the depth of someones understanding we may end up putting ourselves at risk.

Please be careful and undertake some of these activities with care and make sure you understand the risks, there are some serious sails being developed on the site understand that they can be as much a risk as an aid particularly on open water, where there's wind there's usually waves. You could be traveling quickly and in more unstable conditions coming detached from your yak may not be the brightest thing to do...


One thing we have to be careful with is having the sail so far forward that if you do become parted from the kayak it will continue to sail in the direction last pointed.... might be a long swim home (but at least you'll have lots of energy because you won't have paddled/peddled anywhere )
This assumes that you are just using the rudder to maintain a heading and sailing mainly windward.

If you try to sail into the wind you'll need a keel board or lee boards to stop the yak sliding sideways

if the main force of the sail is in front of the lee board (as a jib would be) again the yak will continue into the sunset. If the lee board is slightly in front of the centre of force the yak should turn into the wind and at least be in swimming range.

I'm no sailor but I have read about it a lot, sails can get you a long way from home in a short period if time so make sure you stay safe.

[mingle]

A tether is something I started to use just before I sold my Revo, but I think it's one safety item every yakker should have... You don't have to be under sail to be easily separated from you yak...

Mine is about 6m of 5mm polyester rope. It's yellow for visibility and floats pretty well. The rope is folded into approximately 10cm loops and help together by a couple of rubber bands. When the rope is pulled, the loops easily slide out from the bands and unravel without any tangles.

It has a stainless carabiner on one end - which clipped over the rear grab-handle of my Revo (just behind the seat) and a stainless clip on the other end - which attaches to the waistband of my PFD and can be easily reached and unclipped using one hand.

I attach it once I'm in my seat and tuck the rope-bundle under the side of my PFD, or just on the seat behind my lower back. I've never needed to use it in anger, but I have forgotten a few times and walked away from the yak with it still attached and it worked like a dream!

Here it is...

Cost about $10 to make...

Cheers,

Mike.

[GoneFishn]

Some very good points you make there Tormentor. As mingle I too have a tether that I usually use for when going out in places like BarwonHeads and Apollo Bay (offshore). Yes its another line to possible get tangled in but that is why I wear a dive knife.

[Mordy]

Good post tormentor,
Especially if you have your sail line (mainsheet) camed.
If the weather was a bit dodgie and the line not cammed the sail would just swing around into the wind.
Still kayaks drift a good rate even in the slightest conditions.

Had a kayak re-entry trial a couple of months ago (Because Eddy aka ELM is a bit like father Christmas HE KNOWS !)
God love him keeping us safe, the new yakers and the not so new.
Any way did three re entries, flipped the yak over a couple of times, righted it and got back on board, no problem.
On the last attempt I felt something scrap on the side of the yak, when I got back in my Rapala 4" knife that I
Had fixed to my PFD was gone, had obviouslt de-sheathed and lucky for me it didn't end up between me anf the PFD or I would
of lost my appendix !!
So If you step on a 4" Rapala knife on Aspendale Beach, could you please return it
Knife less in Mordy

[paddlepop]

Agree with mordy...good post and some sound advice that has got me thinking for one.

I'm looking to rig a 'deadmans' leash to the mast -up-down line line - maybe a section of 5kg line that the leash would break should I part company. If I put a bungy on the mast then the main line -if broken or un-cam-ed would simply let the mast drop to deck.
I reckon another fail safe could be to over tension the bungy on one rudder peddle so it would simply luff up into the wind if no pressure is on it..... all things to try in safety of a sheltered cove.

One more thing - some dissagree but each to their own .....I carry my personal flares ON my PFD - just can't see the point in having safety equipment such as this nicely tucked away in a waterpoof container somewhere on the yak !!

cheers

Ppop

[cheaterparts]

A tether is something I started to use just before I sold my Revo, but I think it's one safety item every yakker should have... You don't have to be under sail to be easily separated from you yak...

Mike.

the tether is a great Idea and I'm going to copy it and not as a sailing safety item - just a straight out safety piece
as most know I fish WP and in some places the tide flows pretty hard

I have had to use 8 oz sinkers before in some spots and the thought of swiming against that doesn't impress
and at night that would be worse
I did tip the yak upside down one late arvo near spit point in 12 meters of water a while ago and witht the tide moving ( its not to bad there )
the first thing is that the nav light is under water ,so in the dark with the light under water a yak could quickly go out of site
its a great Idea Mike - I'm making a cheater leash

[ELM]

A great topic Tormentor and something well worth discussion .

Adding sails to your kayak, opens up a whole new gamut of considerations and possible scenario's including the fact, they are easier to tip over. Extra ropes and lines are potential points of entanglement and masts and sails make them harder to right and re-mount, if one goes belly up. Then there is the risk like you have explained Tor, of the kayak sailing off in the sunset, with you bobbing like a cork 500 meters behind and the flea's abandoning ship .

Then Mordy adds, a potential yet innocent stabbing to the mix while he tries to re-mount, lukely in one respect, he lost his knife rather than found a 2" deep hole in his chest with it hanging out.

I read only the other day, a Navy officer stated; "One 15 minute training drill, can expose more than 200 hrs worth of risk assessment from a team of experts".

My biggest scare yet with the AI, was an entanglement with two fishing lines and a 2.5mm paddle leash. While I understand the merits of a personal leash to the kayak, I am also very sceptical of one's safety, and anyone with one, needs to take extra precautions. It's not something to be thought of lightly. I think if you use one, it should be disconnected anywhere there are breaking waves as in a surf zone, small beach break or an offshore reef with a break. The risks of being twisted and entangled even more, pulled under, or worse, dragged across a shallow or exposed reef are to high. The line must be floating line and not something that can sink, if it does, it then can catch on unexposed reef or debris, potentially pulling you under. You also need to consider it's attachment point to your person, if it is in the wrong place and you are in strong current. The mixture of current strength and attachment point may have you pulled the wrong way and unable to reach the tether to pull yourself back up to the kayak or injure your back, my guess for this spot would be a chest harness, off a suitable pfd not the back or waist.
I have tried to tether myself to the AI in current, so I can fit dive gear. Once you let go of the kayak, it's amazing what positions the current will quickly pull you into.
I am not a professional and truly do not know the correct answers, if there are any. These are just my personal opinions from personal experience.

I used to carry a knife similar to Mordy mounted on my PFD but after a little jab in the shoulder while trying to put it back, I have since changed to a titanium line cutter, there is a far less chance of stabbing myself or someone else, let alone inflatable PFD's. I have also attached a wrist leash that allows extra grip and pulling power to cut any ropes or line necessary (I have easily cut up to 8mm nylon anchor rope and also hacked through 12 strand wire trace with one) and the best thing is it's weight, or lack of I should say.

From what I understand, the OMS one's are no longer available here in Australia but Hollis also make them.

On Ebay at the moment, $59.95 http://cgi.ebay.com/HOLLIS-TITANIUM-LIN ... 0566632018

If you can get a pair of theses OMS A194 Cutting Sheers, they will also snip through a 12 strand wire trace in an emergency, though it will jagger the blade edge;


I am also waiting for some further clarification in regard to kayaks with sails, so more to come and will probably start a new thread so as not to distract from other important topics here.

[Mordy]

I told you he knows
There are those jigers they use for releasing marlin, all inclosed plastic just to clip the line ( not the yakker)
Might be worth a look
and as for the secateurs, great on the roses....thinking browny points,,,,,, and tax deduction
M

[swit]

Excellent stuff folks. I have a tether that I use...much the same setup as mingle's, but with a section of bungee in it. I use it in case I take an unplanned dip and the yak drifts away, but I confess that I hadn't considered the yak sailing off without me!

[ELM]

I told you he knows
There are those jigers they use for releasing marlin, all inclosed plastic just to clip the line ( not the yakker)
Might be worth a look
and as for the secateurs, great on the roses....thinking browny points,,,,,, and tax deduction
M

No, I don't know Mordy,

I am not a professional and truly do not know the correct answers, if there are any. These are just my personal opinions from personal experience.

There are those jigers they use for releasing marlin, all inclosed plastic just to clip the line ( not the yakker)
Might be worth a look

Sorry Mordy, do not know them, have you got a link or pic.

As for the sheers, when I was told they cut steel trace, I said "Bull sh!t", one of the guys pulled theirs out and snipped a thin wire trace, I thought yes ok, better than nothing but not that impressive. I was then offered to bring them home and try them on some thicker stuff if I had any, after a warning what I would try them on, he said it is ok because he was about to replace them, so I did. I have some 12 strand (200lb for memory) wire trace that I cut three sections, even the thin trace put a nick in them, the 12 strand was not cut clean and again placed a decent jag on the blade. But if you were in a fix and only used them for emergency situations, I actually think they would be better than a knife or line cutter, again, just my opinion. I am not sure just how well OMS are doing, while a lot of their gear is magnificent, other stuff has a bit to be desired and they seem to be pulling some of there supplies back or even stopped, since the financial down turn. I lost the pair I bought, and have since found they are no longer available here so have not been able to replace them.

I love the titanium stuff for the PFD, so light, compact, keep a great edge and no rusting. They are strictly used for emergency only, so I know they will be sharp when needed. The every day fishing knife's that I use are attached to the hull of my kayak and also in reach "I hope" if needed in an emergency.

Hi Swit, not sure how far a kayak would actually go under sail without a person on it. Honestly, I doubt very far under full sail, but in saying that, out of arms reach, in a medium to strong wind or current, it can be enough to stay out of reach and quickly disappear. If you are lucky and the kayak does tip over, then the mast and sail, "may" act like a drift chute and slow it down or it can still act as a sail catching a greater portion of the moving water quickly whisking it away. If the kayak stays upright and the sail moves into a luff position, then it is still catching wind and will increase the drift speed compared to a kayak without a mast or sail.

If you have tried to swim with your PFD on, then you have probably found out how much slower they can make you, if you were to be swimming against a current, while the wind was blowing your kayak away, it becomes a lot clearer as to how quickly they can get away. If you were to anchor 200 meters out from the Rye pier half way through a tide change, I doubt you will swim back to your kayak if separated from it and the closer you get to the heads, even less chance.

When the paddle boarder was lost and he was separated from his board, he noted that the wind just kept picking his board up every time part of it became exposed off the top of the waves, and then just threw it through the air. I cannot find the original thread (on Seabreeze.com I think) but here is a link to the Age http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/paddl ... -tkm8.html While I recognise a kayak is a lot heavier, it is amazing just how powerful and quick the wind can come up. The thing with sails, is while the average kayak owner is starting to think it's time to come in, someone with a sail is starting to think it is time to head out and where ever there is wind, you can be guaranteed the waves are getting bigger and the risks higher.