Jordo's Dorado II

[Seasherpa]

What does something like this weigh? Never had a lot to do with fiberglass kayaks apart from surf skis.

Very heavy in comparison to a surf ski, coming in at about 28kgs I think. A lot lighter than a similar sized plastic yak though.

There is a big range in weights out there now with vacuum-tech being used in the glassing process, not to mention carbon/kevlar options now available. Kazkaki website lists the Dorado II at 29kgs and the new Stealths are down to 23kgs. The Hobie Revo 16 (Adventure) is 34kg by comparison and 42kg rigged according to the Hobie cat website. A kevlar Mirage 583 is probably the pick of the bunch in terms of weight at only 21kg for almost 6 meters of kayak.

[Jordo]

21kgs for kevlar is a bit chunky!
The fishing kayak technology is all well behind the racing skis, 6m kevlar racing skis can be as littte as 9kgs. Just wait until that technology feeds through to the fishing yaks!

[Seasherpa]

21kgs for kevlar is a bit chunky!
The fishing kayak technology is all well behind the racing skis, 6m kevlar racing skis can be as littte as 9kgs. Just wait until that technology feeds through to the fishing yaks!

Chalk and cheese though Jordo, they are lighter because their stability comes from movement not at rest so they are half the width and don't contain hatches, rod holders or fish boxes which all add to the weight. Fishing ski's carry more width in the seat and the fish box also forces the width of the fishing ski in the catch area too so they have much more volume in the nose. I think you can really only compare the fishing ski's to each other in terms of technology.

[Jordo]

That is true, but the technology in the fishing skis biuld process is also a long way behind. If stealth and kaskazi ect. Were applying the same skills and technology to there skis as stella (for example), I believe we would be seeing 5m fibreglass fishing skis weighing in at sub 20kgs. They aren't far off this now and are catching up. I also think there are a few areas where weight could be saved, like running the side walls of the fish boxes down the the hull instead of having the added weight of a floating floor in them, this would also make them deeper and easier for transducer install. I was talking to a ski builder about if a fish box like that was feasible, he said that there is no reason it wouldnt be. I know baggs has been talking about getting a profisha and cutting out the fish box completely for more storage space, dropping the weight to 19kgs. So there are deffinantly a lot of possible areas for improvement yet. There are a few ski builders also interested in trying there hand at designing some fishing skis in the future too, so something else to look forward to.

[cheaterparts]

That is true, but the technology in the fishing skis biuld process is also a long way behind. If stealth and kaskazi ect. Were applying the same skills and technology to there skis as stella (for example), I believe we would be seeing 5m fibreglass fishing skis weighing in at sub 20kgs. They aren't far off this now and are catching up. I also think there are a few areas where weight could be saved, like running the side walls of the fish boxes down the the hull instead of having the added weight of a floating floor in them, this would also make them deeper and easier for transducer install. I was talking to a ski builder about if a fish box like that was feasible,

It might be feasible however does the fish box add to the rigidity of the yak and will it crack up more with the extra flex
an extra floor and fish box side would add a lot of extra rigidity which also may lead to thinner panels

remember that that apart from us as the paddler would always like less weight to push , the manufacturer also wont's to use as little material as possible

[Jordo]

If you ran the side walls of the fish box straight from the underside of the deck to the hull it would actually add a lot of strength, its basically just removing the fish box and adding longitudinal bulkheads. That way you have maximum strength and space, and you minimise materials - its just not as pretty because the hull isnt flat like the floors on the fish boxes are.

[cheaterparts]

If you ran the side walls of the fish box straight from the underside of the deck to the hull it would actually add a lot of strength, its basically just removing the fish box and adding longitudinal bulkheads. That way you have maximum strength and space, and you minimise materials - its just not as pretty because the hull isnt flat like the floors on the fish boxes are.

then you may not have enough give - so when you beach the hull could be brittle along the side of this bulk head with the bottom of the hull not flexing enough

[Seasherpa]

If you ran the side walls of the fish box straight from the underside of the deck to the hull it would actually add a lot of strength, its basically just removing the fish box and adding longitudinal bulkheads. That way you have maximum strength and space, and you minimise materials - its just not as pretty because the hull isnt flat like the floors on the fish boxes are.

then you may not have enough give - so when you beach the hull could be brittle along the side of this bulk head with the bottom of the hull not flexing enough

Yep I'd worry about strength.
A cobia would shatter it if it got unruly.

[Jordo]

I hadnt considered the lack of flexibility, it would have to be considered.
I dont know about the lack of flex being enough of a problem for a wild fish tail to break it, afterall fibreglass it strong stuff, however if you were coming in through some surf and it wasn't willing to flex, you could find out about any weak spots, ie. Deck to hull seals, or cockpit to deck seals.
but then again the ski builders I talked to didnt raise it as a problem, so perhapse we will wait and see what the future fish box designs will bring.
I guess at the end of the day the easiest way to minimise weight is to just minimise the weight you add in gear. If you plus your gear is adding 100+kgs in weight what real difference does a few kgs of material weight in the kayak make? That is as long as its light enough to be easily hauled around when out of the water.
Andrew was telling me the other day that he had a guy wanting to fork out 3k on a new yak to cut down 3kgs. Being a realist, and unfraid to speak the harsh truth, andrew told him he was better off saving his money and cutting down 3kgs off his stomach . A tad harsh, but you cant really argue with the logic of it

[Jordo]

Also weights impact on ski permorfance has to be weighed up . As it doesnt effect max speed (determined by hull shape), only how quickly you get to max speed and how easy it is to maintain your speed. This is why I, like baggs, am a tad doubtful as to the new fishas being 'faster' than the evos, or whether they are just more responsive and easier to maintain speed in - giving the illusion that they are a lot faster. Though if you can maintain speed easier and cover more ground in the day, who really cares if it is actually 'faster' or not.