Hobie Mirage Fishing Kayak Guide

[shane]

Unless something breaks, hey Shane

Always a plan B or C Kelly.

[Yakass]

Another main difference is I would struggle to penetrate into wind in the Quest, say if a northerly got up off Millers. With the mirage drive there is enough torque to penetrate into very strong winds (25kt+) even in the PA, whereas paddling you would be going backwards.

Hence what I said about paddle technique and fitness. Not saying you're not a good paddler Shane, but some people are really, really good. And the Quest goes great in the hands of someone who can make it perform optimally.

Little story about that: I use to be a much better paddler than what I am today, largely because I rarely paddle now, but I use to paddle a lot. But back in 2008 when I was working for Hobie, we use to do staff training at the factory. The course would go for a full week. The first day of every week-long course we'd get all participants onto the water in every model of kayak. My job was to sit out on the water, answer questions, help out and prevent people from drowning

I always used the Quest for this. The main reason I did it is that most of the staff that came to us were only interested in learning about the pedal kayaks. I was proving a point: that the Quest was equally capable of any of the pedal kayaks and they should be paying attention to that as well. I was out there for two 3 - 3.5 hour sessions in a day, stopping only for lunch. I covered a lot of ground and I was always able to keep up with any other model, save for the Adventure over longer distances. This was in Jervis Bay, so a lot like PPB. I would not have been able to do what I was doing anywhere near as efficiently in a PA.

It has its place, and it is one of the best kayaks for fishing without doubt. But it bothers me when I see people claiming its a great off shore fishing kayak. Thats simply not true and is the kind of advice that could put someone in a seriously bad position. To say it is good for off shore, you absolutely have to add the caveat 'in calm waters and low winds' otherwise you're steering them down the garden path. Take it from someone that has used each and every one of these models (some of them extensively - I have owned seven of them), and has worked for Hobie, several dealerships, and has the collective benefit of receiving feedback from over a thousand users.

[laneends]

Another main difference is I would struggle to penetrate into wind in the Quest, say if a northerly got up off Millers. With the mirage drive there is enough torque to penetrate into very strong winds (25kt+) even in the PA, whereas paddling you would be going backwards.

Certainly need body strength in strong headwinds. A carbon paddle makes it a lot easier than the standard Hobie one in those conditions, its like dropping a gear rather than stirring mud, and more sustainable. The sailing rudder upgrade helps with keeping it pointing in the right direction, so you reduce corrective stroking and hence effective headway

How do you go keeping mirage yaks heading in the right direction when the cross wind is greater than rudder authority? Do you have to paddle as well as peddle?

[shane]

Fair enough.

I just know my own experience and also realise that very few other people locally have spent much time fishing offshore in a PA. If I could choose anything it would be an AI but for now I can make do with the PA within conditions that I know it can handle.

[Yakass]

How do you go keeping mirage yaks heading in the right direction when the cross wind is greater than rudder authority? Do you have to paddle as well as peddle?

Great question. Of course some models are better at this than others, depending on how much freeboard there is. Models like the Outback and especially PA's will struggle more so in the wind. However the Miragedrive counters this really well. Unlike paddling, the forward momentum is constant, provides more torque and comes from the centre line of the yak, and is under the waterline. So no zig zag (centre line propulsion), no added wind resistance (under waterline propulsion) and constant forward momentum really helps drive you forward. That same trait really helps when sailing an AI on a reach without a daggerboard. And no, you don't need to paddle and pedal. That is incredibly inefficient and will screw you over quickly. The pedals create so much momentum that by dipping the paddle the flow of water just sorts of carries it away, and it rarely helps much. I'd only resort to that if I was being chased by a crocodile and I only had a short distance to get to safety

[shane]

Certainly need body strength in strong headwinds. A carbon paddle makes it a lot easier than the standard Hobie one in those conditions, its like dropping a gear rather than stirring mud, and more sustainable. The sailing rudder upgrade helps with keeping it pointing in the right direction, so you reduce corrective stroking and hence effective headway

How do you go keeping mirage yaks heading in the right direction when the cross wind is greater than rudder authority? Do you have to paddle as well as peddle?

I'd never claim to be a strong or good paddler and only used the Hobie paddle so I could see that better paddlers would find it much easier. In the Quest I could get up to about 10km/h whereas the PA tops out a bit over 8.

In strong winds I always have a hand on the rudder making minor adjustments but have never had conditions beyond the rudder authority. The strongest I've had is around 30kts off the point at Ricketts (confirmed by BOM and wind lines/spray etc off water as per beaufort scale). In those conditions I could keep pointing into the wind and make very slow progress back up level with the launch. My PA has a DIY rudder that's bigger than the larger hobie rudder so that would also help. A standard setup may have more issues tracking straight. I also would not recommend anyone heading out in wind anywhere near those speeds. That day was a pick up in wind hours ahead of forecast.

[Yakass]

I can make do with the PA within conditions that I know it can handle.

Thats the key Shane - knowing what it can handle. The problem with saying in a public forum that it is 'great for offshore' has potential for people to read into it the wrong way ie: 'as good as anything else'. I have witnessed dozens of people buy PAs for off shore, only to have to trade in later because they figured out they bought the wrong kayak. Thats one of the reasons I wrote that guide.

Incidentally, Scott Lovig and I were discussing this today. He loves - and I mean lurvs - the PA. He adores the thing and will always use it for tourney fishing. But his words were - and I quote - 'its a bitch to paddle longer distances in stiff winds... I'm going to start using the new AI in single hull mode for fishing in the bay'. I can't wait to use it the very same way. Of course, for more ambitious trips, I'll be using it as a trimaran, and I bet he will start doing the same.

On the topic of the new AI, we actually sent Hobie USA a wish list of changes for the AI about 10 months ago, and it appears as if we got everything we asked for. Even a forward raked bow! We are very excite!

[shane]

Josh, Youre advice is sound enough and after all you are the guys with all the responsibility that comes with selling them.

I don't think I ever said a PA is 'great for offshore'. My point was that it can be used offshore when conditions suit, just like say an Oasis can. I wouldn't hesitate in fishing outside the bays with someone else in a PA if I they had the expereince and capability to handle suitable conditions on a given day. Unfortunately some people may think a PA can't go outside and so this limits their options. If they're buying a yak specifically to focus on offshore fishing then its a different story and an adventure or AI would be a much better yak. I suppose that's really the purpose of your guide so enough said from me on the subject.

[laneends]

I think it is important to keep in mind that most kayak fishers are fishos first and kayakers out of necessity to get to the fish. Few are strong at either peddling or paddling in hard conditions continuously. Endurance is the key, top speed doesn't mean much if you can't keep up the pace for a prolong period it doesn't matter whether its peddle or paddle you will be in danger in the rough.

I'm the sort of idiot who paddles hard into strong winds for as long as possible just for the challange even if there is no need

[gus fitzroy]

Thanks for getting back on the speeds Josh. The discussion has been very interesting and insightful so thanks to others for input. Interesting the potential wind effect on the PA and the higher standing yak's, I understand that a little better now. When I eventually upgrade I'm probably leaning towards a revo13 for it's speed and safety/comfort if more challenging conditions arise. Maybe give me that option of Chasing something out wider when conditions suit.