Just thinking out loud here, but what about a list of pre checks, weather hazards, basic marine navigation, safety gear requirements and have it available to view on the forum under a "new to kayaking" topic (or similar) or send a copy via a pm to every new member. That way every possible thing has been covered and its then up to the operator to determine his/ hers ability. I've seen it a lot with guys new to kayaking not knowing, basic water craft as simple as anchoring in a marked shipping channel. Some of this stuff scares me when i see it. At least when you get your Boat licence that all gets covered in the course.
I think we just give honest advice and leave it at that.
Bilby.
Is the Advice we are giving safe ?
-
bilby
- PHD in Yakology.
- Posts: 2841
- Joined: 24 Jan 2010, 20:13
- kayak: Fender Stratocaster + Marshall stack
- Real Name: Fozzy bear
- Location: Mount Martha
Re: Is the Advice we are giving safe ?
Bill 0409139460
-
Windknot
- Lord of the fish
- Posts: 1628
- Joined: 02 Jun 2010, 16:32
- kayak: Malibu Mini X & Native Watercraft Propel
- Real Name: Mick
- Location: Surf Coast
Re: Is the Advice we are giving safe ?
You must have been thinking out loud very loudly there Bilby as it echoed. 
Seriously though, they're all good points mate.
Mick
Seriously though, they're all good points mate.
Mick
There's only a fine distinction between fly fishing and standing on the bank looking like an idiot.
-
chillihilli
- The force is strong in this one
- Posts: 96
- Joined: 24 May 2010, 11:28
- kayak: Perception Swing
- Real Name: Peter
Re: Is the Advice we are giving safe ?
I think the advice is safe if it is considered good practice/best practice and has been gleaned from experience (after all training is merely a formalised way to help transfer knowledge from old hands to newbies).
My concern with this is we would have to ensure absolute disconnection from liability if someone were to follow the guidelines and still get into trouble. So if we take the approach of sharing experience rather than calling it sage advice should help.
Bilby has some good ideas there. Calling it out in a particular section saying "Read these before going yak fishing" should enable us to share our "Good Practices" distinctively from random advice from some newbie replying to a post. The "safety" section would be the logical place for it me thinks.
I seem to learn more from my own mistakes (err sorry "experience") but I also read other peoples misfortunes and try and learn from that. ELM's description of his full drysuit re-entry incident is a good example that stuck in my mind. What about a thread that is something like: "BAD DAY OUT - WHAT NOT TO DO"?. I can contribute a few posts to it!
That said, here's some things I've learned from kayaking and other hobbies and experiences (and in my opinion EXPERIENCE is the best safety asset you can have)..
- Pre- activity safety checks: Go to an airport and catch the first flight of the day, and watch the pilot walk around the plane with a torch. That's right, EVERY pilot, not an engineer, does a daily check of EVERY aircraft of it's first flight for the day. It's the pilots responsibility to make sure the plan is airworthy to the best of his knowledge. Every safe SCUBA Diver does at least his buddy's safety check for him - best practice is he does his own and his buddy's, and his buddy does his as a back up. Every unplanned issue I've had in entry to the water in diving can be put down to a lack of checks. In relation to yaks: Are the drainage bungs in? Did you close the hatches properly? Did the silicon you've used hold or is loose and could let water in? Did your trolley puncture a hole in your scupper and will cause you to sink (yes it happened to me)? Open the hatch before you take off, is there any water in there whilst it's been floating in the shallows? Is all your gear secure? I think we should have this all in a list somewhere.
- Is the yakker fit for purpose?: If you are new to yakking, are in a different yak, new to paddling and/or don't have a good level of fitness, stick to shallow/calm water or rivers until you build the right level of fitness and experience to cope with what might come. There are plenty of safe spots in the bay to paddle around in (Maribyrnong River Edgewater lake, Patto river for example) to get yourself up to speed. Just bought yourself a nice shiny AI/TI and don't know how to sail? Before you head for King Island, try a few light wind, light condition sails before heading out further. Some of the early yak fishers in Noosa make a strong point on this by getting up to fitness in the Noosa river before taking on a surf launch and big water fishing.
- Know the conditions - tide and weather - especially wind and how it will change. Understanding the wind, and the tide in combination can make a huge difference.
I was at Willy last week in a mild 5 - 10 knot wind, but it was directly opposite a cranking outgoing tide which was causing some chop and fast moving water. Potentially a dangerous situation in 5 metres of 12 deg C water. I was very wary of the waves, stayed close to shore and pulled the pin as conditions worsened.
Most importantly, pick the right day to go out to suit your yak, and your survival fitness.
- Plan the flight/dive, Dive/Fly the plan:
This is another way of saying let someone know before you go and then DON'T deviate from the plan. Most of my trips are solo and mid week. I always let the mrs know where I am, how long I'll be and keep the phone within reach anyway (she likes to check in on me and I typically catch a fish after she's called and I say I've got nothing).
- Know your gear - where is your knife? where is your torch ? where's your whistle? where is your backup flotation? If your kayak takes on water, how will it behave and how do you recognise that early rather than waiting till you are blowing bubbles? When your kayak rolls, how are all those leashes, handlines, anchor ropes, drift chutes going to tangle up to hinder you? Can you easily cut through them if you have to? Do you have gear stashed in your hull that might help ? Can you get to your safety gear if your yak is semi-submerged or capsized? Is it usable if it gets wet?
- Emergency plan - what if it all goes to crap and you get dunked? where's the nearest shoreline, boat, buoy, nav marker, marine park sign? If you are in the drink, which way will you swim? How will you signal for help? How much battery life is left in your nav light or torch? How will the tide and wind going to help or hinder you getting there? A great mantra from flying is "AVIATE, NAVIGATE, COMMUNICATE". In an emergency, it helps you prioritise what to do. That is, fly the damn plane and get control of it, work out where the hell you are (and where the nearest safe landing is), then lastly make your emergency calls and get help.
Think through your plan in any situation: when you arrive at a spot, as you leave for another spot, as the conditions change, as the light fades, as you decide to stand up/kneel and take a pee etc.
Sorry for the lengthy email (and I don't profess to be an expert), but I think sharing experience is the really the best way to get knowledge out there for people to formulate their ideas on what is good for them. The more we do it, the more we get out of it.
My concern with this is we would have to ensure absolute disconnection from liability if someone were to follow the guidelines and still get into trouble. So if we take the approach of sharing experience rather than calling it sage advice should help.
Bilby has some good ideas there. Calling it out in a particular section saying "Read these before going yak fishing" should enable us to share our "Good Practices" distinctively from random advice from some newbie replying to a post. The "safety" section would be the logical place for it me thinks.
I seem to learn more from my own mistakes (err sorry "experience") but I also read other peoples misfortunes and try and learn from that. ELM's description of his full drysuit re-entry incident is a good example that stuck in my mind. What about a thread that is something like: "BAD DAY OUT - WHAT NOT TO DO"?. I can contribute a few posts to it!
That said, here's some things I've learned from kayaking and other hobbies and experiences (and in my opinion EXPERIENCE is the best safety asset you can have)..
- Pre- activity safety checks: Go to an airport and catch the first flight of the day, and watch the pilot walk around the plane with a torch. That's right, EVERY pilot, not an engineer, does a daily check of EVERY aircraft of it's first flight for the day. It's the pilots responsibility to make sure the plan is airworthy to the best of his knowledge. Every safe SCUBA Diver does at least his buddy's safety check for him - best practice is he does his own and his buddy's, and his buddy does his as a back up. Every unplanned issue I've had in entry to the water in diving can be put down to a lack of checks. In relation to yaks: Are the drainage bungs in? Did you close the hatches properly? Did the silicon you've used hold or is loose and could let water in? Did your trolley puncture a hole in your scupper and will cause you to sink (yes it happened to me)? Open the hatch before you take off, is there any water in there whilst it's been floating in the shallows? Is all your gear secure? I think we should have this all in a list somewhere.
- Is the yakker fit for purpose?: If you are new to yakking, are in a different yak, new to paddling and/or don't have a good level of fitness, stick to shallow/calm water or rivers until you build the right level of fitness and experience to cope with what might come. There are plenty of safe spots in the bay to paddle around in (Maribyrnong River Edgewater lake, Patto river for example) to get yourself up to speed. Just bought yourself a nice shiny AI/TI and don't know how to sail? Before you head for King Island, try a few light wind, light condition sails before heading out further. Some of the early yak fishers in Noosa make a strong point on this by getting up to fitness in the Noosa river before taking on a surf launch and big water fishing.
- Know the conditions - tide and weather - especially wind and how it will change. Understanding the wind, and the tide in combination can make a huge difference.
I was at Willy last week in a mild 5 - 10 knot wind, but it was directly opposite a cranking outgoing tide which was causing some chop and fast moving water. Potentially a dangerous situation in 5 metres of 12 deg C water. I was very wary of the waves, stayed close to shore and pulled the pin as conditions worsened.
Most importantly, pick the right day to go out to suit your yak, and your survival fitness.
- Plan the flight/dive, Dive/Fly the plan:
This is another way of saying let someone know before you go and then DON'T deviate from the plan. Most of my trips are solo and mid week. I always let the mrs know where I am, how long I'll be and keep the phone within reach anyway (she likes to check in on me and I typically catch a fish after she's called and I say I've got nothing).
- Know your gear - where is your knife? where is your torch ? where's your whistle? where is your backup flotation? If your kayak takes on water, how will it behave and how do you recognise that early rather than waiting till you are blowing bubbles? When your kayak rolls, how are all those leashes, handlines, anchor ropes, drift chutes going to tangle up to hinder you? Can you easily cut through them if you have to? Do you have gear stashed in your hull that might help ? Can you get to your safety gear if your yak is semi-submerged or capsized? Is it usable if it gets wet?
- Emergency plan - what if it all goes to crap and you get dunked? where's the nearest shoreline, boat, buoy, nav marker, marine park sign? If you are in the drink, which way will you swim? How will you signal for help? How much battery life is left in your nav light or torch? How will the tide and wind going to help or hinder you getting there? A great mantra from flying is "AVIATE, NAVIGATE, COMMUNICATE". In an emergency, it helps you prioritise what to do. That is, fly the damn plane and get control of it, work out where the hell you are (and where the nearest safe landing is), then lastly make your emergency calls and get help.
Think through your plan in any situation: when you arrive at a spot, as you leave for another spot, as the conditions change, as the light fades, as you decide to stand up/kneel and take a pee etc.
Sorry for the lengthy email (and I don't profess to be an expert), but I think sharing experience is the really the best way to get knowledge out there for people to formulate their ideas on what is good for them. The more we do it, the more we get out of it.