Is the Advice we are giving safe ?

[Bozzie]

So if some young kid who's parent's don't give a S#!^, takes some of the (IMHO) fairly dangerous "advice" (and if you are telling someone I wear it, its safe, it is "advice") and that poor kid drowns. You have no remorse ??? He deserved it !!!!!!!!!!!! What if his folks bought him the kayak to just get him out of their hair, I suppose you could say you did the folks a favour and that justifies it !!!!

Thats it. I'm outa here. I got into yaking to get away from this crap

[ELM]

The thing that worries me is you give people the advice and they do the opposite I know of guys out there (new to the sport) who haven't even attempted a re-entry in deep water .
Eddie you should have nothing to worry about the advise you have been giving in regards to safety as it is all very relevant and very important. I really don’t think people realise how dangerous our sport can be, especially during winter.

Is all the advice safe that we give? No.

What do we do?
Maybe at the East meets West or other large gatherings we can have some literature on recommended safety equipment and clothing.
Organise days for practising un-assisted and assisted re-entries.

Thanks Kelly and yes I know what you mean re ignoring advice.

I like your idea of the literature for "recommended" safety equipment and clothing, having an agreed recommended list on the site where we can point people would also be a good help.

As for the training at meets or specific training days would be great, but, that's where it becomes very touchy, with no insurance or official training qualifications, it could be quite dangerous financially for anyone that does it. Litigation if something were to go wrong could be huge.

[maverick]

So we produce a voluntary Code of Conduct and a "basic safety and information page" that is downloadable. No cost to anyone and we are at least appearing to do the correct thing. Whether you comply or not is up to the individual.

[GoneFishn]

The thing that worries me is you give people the advice and they do the opposite I know of guys out there (new to the sport) who haven't even attempted a re-entry in deep water .
Eddie you should have nothing to worry about the advise you have been giving in regards to safety as it is all very relevant and very important. I really don’t think people realise how dangerous our sport can be, especially during winter.

Is all the advice safe that we give? No.

What do we do?
Maybe at the East meets West or other large gatherings we can have some literature on recommended safety equipment and clothing.
Organise days for practising un-assisted and assisted re-entries.

Thanks Kelly and yes I know what you mean re ignoring advice.

I like your idea of the literature for "recommended" safety equipment and clothing, having an agreed recommended list on the site where we can point people would also be a good help.

As for the training at meets or specific training days would be great, but, that's where it becomes very touchy, with no insurance or official training qualifications, it could be quite dangerous financially for anyone that does it. Litigation if something were to go wrong could be huge.

Not "training" as such more of a get together to see how its done and practice. If we dont state it is an official training session we should be able to duck under the rules, regulations and laws (insurance for public liability)

We are all Old enough Big enough and Ugly enough to be able to see that basically kayak fishing is a solo activity (unless on a tandem) and therefore if something was to go wrong it would ultimately be the person in control of the kayak who would be at fault hence being able to re-mount an upturned kayak and worse still be able to cut free of tangled lines while in the water that could be as low as 9degrees (who actually carries a knife on there person)

[ELM]

So we produce a voluntary Code of Conduct and a "basic safety and information page" that is downloadable. No cost to anyone and we are at least appearing to do the correct thing. Whether you comply or not is up to the individual.

I doubt it would be a problem to have a downloadable code, information page. Web/forum guru's, is it possible.

[MitchT]

jeepers

[HaTTerS]

I think of it as more of an opinion. Not being a proffesional (insert appropriate word), but having experianced life in general, as well as fishing for well over 50 years, I have a few opinions about (insert appropriate word). I like to read other peoples opinions, and digest the pro's and con's, then make up my own mind. I hope most of you would do the same.

Agreed

It's not really advice, in the way a medical professional (or other qualified person) would provide...

It's just people's suggestions and/or opinions... What's good for one person may not be good for another...

So I don't think there's any issue/problems at all...

Common sense is a valuable commodity sometimes...

Mike.

Agreed

So if some young kid who's parent's don't give a S#!^, takes some of the (IMHO) fairly dangerous "advice" (and if you are telling someone I wear it, its safe, it is "advice") and that poor kid drowns. You have no remorse ??? He deserved it !!!!!!!!!!!! What if his folks bought him the kayak to just get him out of their hair, I suppose you could say you did the folks a favour and that justifies it !!!!
Edit; I should add, I truly doubt you mean that, but could be perceived that way !!!

And yes I just realised I have been spelling it advise and not advice , so I never learnt to spell Shoot me!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Will you have the same argument when sitting before a government body after they have moved in and begun to regulate what we can and cannot do, where we can and cannot go ? or worse still, sitting before a judge ?

Remember, this is a public domain that both (we hope) mature adults, and immature young people are trying to learn from!!!!!

LOL, where did that come from?

Take a deep breath mate... calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you don't like the fact that I agree with what Mingle and Bozzie wrote.

I think you're twisting words.

I'll reiterate:

If someone asks a question, I just tell them what I do and perhaps give them some reasons why. I don't say "thou shalt do as I do". I give people an option and they can make the decision whether they want to do the same or similar or not at all. I have no right to enforce it.

I have never said "my way is safe"

I would hope any parent would have the brains to take any information they read on the internet with a huge grain of salt and use their own judgment to make a decision. Not to mention, supervise their young kid while they are near any body of water. If they don't, I can't do much about it.
Governments/associations/clubs/forums etc can create as many regulations/rules/recommendations etc as they like.... doesn't mean everyone who reads them or who owns a kayak will abide by them. Fact of life.

EDIT: P.S. I should add... not quite sure I'd say "They deserved it" no one deserves to die. I've deleted the bit in Mingle's post I don't agree with. I should have removed it before I posted the first time.

[ELM]

No quite the contrary, I have no qualm with you agreeing, it will never happen but I would wish we could all agree.

When someone comes on the forum and asks, "What should I wear ?" or similar, I can only perceive they are asking the question; Ok guys, you have been doing this for awhile know, "what is safe" to wear and will "protect me" ? A lot of the time we have no idea of whom has asked the question, age, maturity, level of ability and if they have any idea of the consequences.

My "perceived attack" was directed at;

then I say they deserved it

and I probably should have chosen a more tactful approach, my apologises if it has been perceived as an attack, not my intention and I hope you know me well enough to know that.
As adults, we can only hope they are mature enough to go deeper into it, but if we are talking to a minor who thinks they are talking to mature adults, then the line begins to get blury as to whether or not they will take it for granted or not, that what has been said is actually safe.

As said at the start, I am not here to dictate to anyone what they should or should not wear, I am asking, are we explaining our selves well enough when we tell people what to wear or how to do things.
Clearly I am not, because I have very much upset (it appears) a lot of people. As said at the start, not my intention and apologies if I have or do.

I don't want an argument and worst of all have a topic that could save lives locked. What I would like to see, is a group discussion on what equipment is perceived to be safe and have it put into as Mav called it, A code of conduct, where people can first be directed, what they do after that is entirely there business. How we can come about that, well with the very differing opinions, very hard.

[momunny]

So if some young kid who's parent's don't give a S#!^, takes some of the (IMHO) fairly dangerous "advice" (and if you are telling someone I wear it, its safe, it is "advice") and that poor kid drowns. You have no remorse ??? He deserved it !!!!!!!!!!!! What if his folks bought him the kayak to just get him out of their hair, I suppose you could say you did the folks a favour and that justifies it !!!!

Thats it. I'm outa here. I got into yaking to get away from this crap

Gday Beven,

Fair nuff...I might join you shortly...too much political crap and not enough good weather for fishing.

[MitchT]

Haven't we got better things to do?