Marine Regulations 2009 pertaining to kayaks in brief.

[Babylon]

Agree with with you Jaycee Knowledge is a good thing BUT boy can it give you a headache Cheers Jim

[ELM]

Hi and thanks Jaycee.
Your point are quite valid about these Act's being written for layers and that the "handbooks" in most cases is all we need. However it is also good (if you can understand it) to know the rest and what impact it does or could have. Remember these Act's are written by politicians and lawyers and may not actually be safe or no longer (due to changes in technology) be valid, as users of these craft we have an opportunity to step forward and advise them and possibly have the regulations changed to better regulate. Now if you are to do that, it's best to spend some time looking into it and then when they are up for review (in this case no longer valid 21 December 2012, only two years away , so up for review mid 2012) you are ready for it. As long as your requests valid and not stupid, they will take notice, and I know I would rather have a chance to self regulate the sport than leave it just to them.

While everyone thinks it's all to hard to read, it is actually in their best interests to take the time to read it and comment on it.
[Example]
Take the amount of people you can carry on your kayak. The regs state if your kayak has molded cockpits then you can only carry the same amount of people as molded cockpits.
How many of us take the kids out & how many of them have a single molded cockpit?

My AI with the tramps etc on (a Grey point what class vessel it is, but basically still a kayak) only has one cockpit but a weight rating of 360 Kg, legally I am still not allowed a passenger but the weight classification and rating will still allow for a second person.

A Pa you will get away with carrying a kid because it does not have a molded cockpit, an outback, No because it has a molded cockpit, yet it's weight rating combined with your own weight may actually allow for it.

Then there is the diving reg and the allowance of "NO" PFD if you are wearing a 3 mm or thicker neoprene wetsuit. If there is a clause that states a 3 mm wet-suit is actually safe enough and buoyant enough to not allow the wearing of PFD's, "could" a better designed neoprene wetsuit actually see us not have to wear a PFD because the suit we are wearing for thermal protection in the first place, be sufficient. Think about it!!!

Like I said, we actually have a chance to have a say and some input into the regs rather than just sit back and criticize them and just have to accept what they think is right.

[jaycee]

Hi and thanks Jaycee.
Your point are quite valid about these Act's being written for layers and that the "handbooks" in most cases is all we need. However it is also good (if you can understand it) to know the rest and what impact it does or could have. Remember these Act's are written by politicians and lawyers and may not actually be safe or no longer (due to changes in technology) be valid, as users of these craft we have an opportunity to step forward and advise them and possibly have the regulations changed to better regulate. Now if you are to do that, it's best to spend some time looking into it and then when they are up for review (in this case no longer valid 21 December 2012, only two years away , so up for review mid 2012) you are ready for it. As long as your requests valid and not stupid, they will take notice, and I know I would rather have a chance to self regulate the sport than leave it just to them.

While everyone thinks it's all to hard to read, it is actually in their best interests to take the time to read it and comment on it.
[Example]
Take the amount of people you can carry on your kayak. The regs state if your kayak has molded cockpits then you can only carry the same amount of people as molded cockpits.
How many of us take the kids out & how many of them have a single molded cockpit?

My AI with the tramps etc on (a Grey point what class vessel it is, but basically still a kayak) only has one cockpit but a weight rating of 360 Kg, legally I am still not allowed a passenger but the weight classification and rating will still allow for a second person.

A Pa you will get away with carrying a kid because it does not have a molded cockpit, an outback, No because it has a molded cockpit, yet it's weight rating combined with your own weight may actually allow for it.

Then there is the diving reg and the allowance of "NO" PFD if you are wearing a 3 mm or thicker neoprene wetsuit. If there is a clause that states a 3 mm wet-suit is actually safe enough and buoyant enough to not allow the wearing of PFD's, "could" a better designed neoprene wetsuit actually see us not have to wear a PFD because the suit we are wearing for thermal protection in the first place, be sufficient. Think about it!!!

Like I said, we actually have a chance to have a say and some input into the regs rather than just sit back and criticize them and just have to accept what they think is right.

I agree wholeheartedly with you Elm, in that it is up to each of us to make sure we get our facts straight and make our voices heard if we are to have any hope of getting rules and laws changed when they don't make sense or are outdated - if we're not willing to participate and contribute then we need to abide by the decisions that others make on our behalf - whinging about it does no good. This goes for every aspect of life, not just boating... from local council to federal parliament we all have some way of voicing our opinion. Not everyone has the capacity, time or inclination to make a direct contribution such as reading acts of parliament and submitting written proposals to change regulations, so we often allow others to speak on our behalf in the form of clubs, organisations, lobby groups etc... not sure if there are any of those in relation to kayaking? In my opinion this delegation of responsibility for keeping across the minute details is perfectly acceptable for the majority of people. Personally, I haven't been involved in kayaking long enough to have come across any rules which I think need changing... maybe that will change once I've been involved in it longer and have learned a bit more.

In regards to your comment about vessel capacity - yes it appears that the clause about capacity would suggest no more passengers than there are seats, but it also says that you can have as many passengers on the vessel as the manufacturer states the vessel is capable of carrying. In this instance I'd say that you'd have more success lobbying the manufacturer of a kayak to change their claimed carrying capacity than to try and get this regulation amended - as it stands it's up to the manufacturer to determine how many people can safely travel on a vessel - I can't imagine any government lawyer wanting to change that... I know I wouldn't (not that I'm a lawyer).

After all that, I guess my point is - good on you for taking the time and initiative to look up the regs. I think it's important that there are people in every recreational and professional group who are willing to go to that sort of effort for the benefit of the group. From all the posts of yours that I've read, I get the strong impression that you are very committed to safety and this sport in general, and I for one am very glad there is someone like you on this great forum - I've already learned a great deal about this sport just from reading your posts. I just hope you don't get too disheartened when the majority of the group don't seem interested in wading through the legalese of these documents.... it really is a chore that most of us don't care for!

Cheers,
Jaycee

[ELM]

Hi Jaycee
Mate I fully understand the lack of interest and that people just want to go fishing, how I would love to go kayaking and fishing rather than wade through all that dribble.
There are people out there who are far more involved than I and I tip my hat to them, but in all honesty we all play our little part, new, old we all make comment and express feelings on here, and that helps those that do bother to get involved at a greater depth, get a general feel and idea of others thoughts.

Anyway, if it's pissing down, blowing a gale, you cannot get out, have enough leaders tied and are bored, drop me a PM I am sure I can find something for you to read I swear I only read the article's