Effect of wind on kayaking progress

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zarbs
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Re: Effect of wind on kayaking progress

Post by zarbs »

I guess this is where 'Peddle power' comes into its own, whether it be Mirage system or Native propeller type, as you have a constant forward motion rather than a slight pause between paddle strokes as you swap from left to right, which in my limited experience was enough to have the wind hold/blow you back particularly when tiring. It's a shame you (at least I) cant coordinate peddling and paddling at the same time, I find it a bit like patting your guts and rubbing your head at the same time.
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Re: Effect of wind on kayaking progress

Post by laneends »

zarbs wrote:I guess this is where 'Peddle power' comes into its own, whether it be Mirage system or Native propeller type, as you have a constant forward motion rather than a slight pause between paddle strokes as you swap from left to right, which in my limited experience was enough to have the wind hold/blow you back particularly when tiring. It's a shame you (at least I) cant coordinate peddling and paddling at the same time, I find it a bit like patting your guts and rubbing your head at the same time.
Under normal condition its pointless doing both as the paddle is freewheeling just to keep up with pedals. However under a headwind when you are not moving fast you can actually get benefit from both, particularly if you alternate as to which takes most of the power, it gives the other a break. Mainly good for short bursts, over a prolong period it tires you too much unless you have practised it I guess.
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Re: Effect of wind on kayaking progress

Post by Seasherpa »

zarbs wrote:I guess this is where 'Peddle power' comes into its own, whether it be Mirage system or Native propeller type, as you have a constant forward motion rather than a slight pause between paddle strokes as you swap from left to right, which in my limited experience was enough to have the wind hold/blow you back particularly when tiring.
The mirage will have the constant motion as you mention, but this is somewhat cancelled out by the lack of glide in the Hobie hulls. For example covering sloppy ground side by side, the mirage drive kayak will be pedalling at a quick cadence while the person in the in the paddle kayak will be paddling with less strokes, and more glide in between each stroke.
A major factor I think is that most paddlers have had no formal instruction - they just went out and paddled. Tough conditions will bring on fatigue and without good form it's hard to keep moving forward into the wind. The poor initial form gets compounded by the fatigue and you end up going nowhere fast. With the mirage drive no lessons or technique is required as there is no 'form' to learn so to speak so when bad conditions hit they stay on the same footing.
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Re: Effect of wind on kayaking progress

Post by Jacko »

Good threads & links thanks for the info & opinions.
Like a few others have said I simply don't go out if it is forecast above 10 kts.
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Re: Effect of wind on kayaking progress

Post by Yako »

It's good to practice in various types of conditions, preferably with backup etc.
I've been caught in unexpected 18-20Kt winds & last month gusts up to 32Kt and experienced getting pushed backwards :o
So yes agreed it's much better under 10Kts but sometimes BOM etc gets it really wrong hence the report "Always" states wind gusts can be 40% more than predicted (the 101 get out of being sued trump card ;) )
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Re: Effect of wind on kayaking progress

Post by zarbs »

Seasherpa wrote: The mirage will have the constant motion as you mention, but this is somewhat cancelled out by the lack of glide in the Hobie hulls. For example covering sloppy ground side by side, the mirage drive kayak will be pedalling at a quick cadence while the person in the in the paddle kayak will be paddling with less strokes, and more glide in between each stroke.
A major factor I think is that most paddlers have had no formal instruction - they just went out and paddled. Tough conditions will bring on fatigue and without good form it's hard to keep moving forward into the wind. The poor initial form gets compounded by the fatigue and you end up going nowhere fast. With the mirage drive no lessons or technique is required as there is no 'form' to learn so to speak so when bad conditions hit they stay on the same footing.
I guess a lot will depend on the Hobie hull used a Revo will have more glide than a Outback and PA (Aircraft carrier) and would be more suited to windy conditions although not as well as glass yaks, so I'm lead to believe (I have no experience of this, just what I have read and been told). I have paddled some kayaks (plastics) that are like paddling a 'wet sock' very stable but no go and I think no matter how good your form/technique was you wouldn't make it much better. I suppose there is 'some form' or technique required for pedaling, as a nice steady full stroke would be better than going like the clappers into the wind, which one may be tempted to do, to get wherever faster.
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Re: Effect of wind on kayaking progress

Post by laneends »

Kayak length comes into play in headwinds, particularly on a paddle yak as the alternating swing side to side (yawing) becomes exaggerated wiping forward momentum off. Especially when you add in probable pitching of wave action.
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Re: Effect of wind on kayaking progress

Post by cheaterparts »

Seasherpa wrote: A major factor I think is that most paddlers have had no formal instruction - they just went out and paddled..
most paddlers having no formal paddle training would be an huge under statement - it would be pretty safe to say no paddling fishos have had training and let the 1 or 2 say they had out of the hundreds that read the post

zarbs wrote: I guess a lot will depend on the Hobie hull used a Revo will have more glide than a Outback and PA (Aircraft carrier) and would be more suited to windy conditions although not as well as glass yaks, so I'm lead to believe (I have no experience of this, just what I have read and been told). I have paddled some kayaks (plastics) that are like paddling a 'wet sock' very stable but no go and I think no matter how good your form/technique was you wouldn't make it much better. I suppose there is 'some form' or technique required for pedaling, as a nice steady full stroke would be better than going like the clappers into the wind, which one may be tempted to do, to get wherever faster.
I must say I've only peddled one Hobie ( a early Revo 13 and I hated it ) I found it had no glide at all - you stop and it stoped -- in fact I remember Tas saying how my Prowler guided nicely of cause the Prowler 4.3 like other top end plastic kayaks ( Viking etc ) have good speed and glide

there are many paddle yaks that are so slow and down right dangerous in any form of wind ( pool toys / Ebay cheapies come to mind ) add that to an untrained paddler that of cause doesn't paddle on windy days cos the yak not good at ot ether is he -- now that same punter is out fishing and the wind gets up , now has real problems it should be no surprise he will be in big trouble

as for Fibre Glass having more glide well yer - I started with a Wavedance Kingfisher ( a great value for money yak ) about 7 years ago - upgraded to a 4.3 prowler much faster and punched through wind better - now I have a stealth profisha 525 faster again by a lot - glides better , turns better , surfs better , catches runners better and even into the wind is better -
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Gummy shark 128 Cm -- Elephant fish 85 Cm -- Snapper 91 Cm -- KG Whiting 49 Cm -- Flathead 55 Cm -- Garfish 47 Cm --Long tail Tuna 86 cm -- Silver Trevally 40 Cm -- Cobia 117 Cm -- snook 53 Cm -- Couta 71 Cm -- Squid 44 hood length


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Re: Effect of wind on kayaking progress

Post by Wind Waker »

But you can't stand up and take a leak :lol:

...and sit in a puddle instead.

#stiringthepot
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Re: Effect of wind on kayaking progress

Post by vicyak »

Wind Waker wrote:But you can't stand up and take a leak :lol:

...and sit in a puddle instead.

#stiringthepot
I have a solution for that... :roll:
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