How quickly can the weather change?

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GoneFishn
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Re: How quickly can the weather change?

Post by GoneFishn »

bjspinner wrote:Harden up guys that was nothing compared to when it hit us at Ricketts.

28 knots and seas a bit bigger.
Nearly had a brown trout in me kokotats.
Hey mate this clip is to show how quickly things can change, yes probably not the worst conditions but for someone in a MiniX they would have had a hell of a time getting back. No one is trying to out do each other to see who goes out in the most stupidest (I think that's a word :oops: ) conditions. Go back about 12 months and remember the 2 guys that died (RIP), yes they where inexperienced but it may also have been one of these sudden weather changes that triggered the whole event.

I have been caught in a few of these and they are not fun, I class myself as an experienced paddler (no means an expert but have been using a kayak for around 10 years) and the hardest thing to do in these situations is to stay calm and concentrate on getting back in without tiring out, and this can be just as hard if its a tail wind as you don't want to get rolled in those sort of conditions because unless you are tethered to your kayak there is no way you will be able to get back to it.
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Re: How quickly can the weather change?

Post by bjspinner »

GoneFishn wrote:
bjspinner wrote:Harden up guys that was nothing compared to when it hit us at Ricketts.

28 knots and seas a bit bigger.
Nearly had a brown trout in me kokotats.
Hey mate this clip is to show how quickly things can change, yes probably not the worst conditions but for someone in a MiniX they would have had a hell of a time getting back. No one is trying to out do each other to see who goes out in the most stupidest (I think that's a word :oops: ) conditions. Go back about 12 months and remember the 2 guys that died (RIP), yes they where inexperienced but it may also have been one of these sudden weather changes that triggered the whole event.

I have been caught in a few of these and they are not fun, I class myself as an experienced paddler (no means an expert but have been using a kayak for around 10 years) and the hardest thing to do in these situations is to stay calm and concentrate on getting back in without tiring out, and this can be just as hard if its a tail wind as you don't want to get rolled in those sort of conditions because unless you are tethered to your kayak there is no way you will be able to get back to it.
Point taken, however I felt that I was giving a light hearted response to the previous posts.

You did notice and commented in the last few days on a post in another section concerning the weather conditions from that same night.
As I responded to your post then, I checked BOM before I left.
As I said don't trust the reports of weather to be accurate at this time of year in that post.
And believe me I took it very serious...

What I will say that was very good to see was other yakkers keeping an eye out for people still on the water and doing the drive by to see that all were in safe.
Last edited by bjspinner on 13 Oct 2012, 09:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How quickly can the weather change?

Post by HaTTerS »

bjspinner wrote:What I will say that was very good to see was other yakkers keeping an eye out for people still on the water and doing the drive by to see that all were in safe.
:thumbsup: Great to hear.
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Re: How quickly can the weather change?

Post by GoneFishn »

bjspinner wrote:
GoneFishn wrote:
bjspinner wrote:Harden up guys that was nothing compared to when it hit us at Ricketts.

28 knots and seas a bit bigger.
Nearly had a brown trout in me kokotats.
Hey mate this clip is to show how quickly things can change, yes probably not the worst conditions but for someone in a MiniX they would have had a hell of a time getting back. No one is trying to out do each other to see who goes out in the most stupidest (I think that's a word :oops: ) conditions. Go back about 12 months and remember the 2 guys that died (RIP), yes they where inexperienced but it may also have been one of these sudden weather changes that triggered the whole event.

I have been caught in a few of these and they are not fun, I class myself as an experienced paddler (no means an expert but have been using a kayak for around 10 years) and the hardest thing to do in these situations is to stay calm and concentrate on getting back in without tiring out, and this can be just as hard if its a tail wind as you don't want to get rolled in those sort of conditions because unless you are tethered to your kayak there is no way you will be able to get back to it.
Point taken, however I felt that I was giving a light hearted response to the previous posts.

You did notice and commented in the last few days on a post in another section concerning the weather conditions from that same night.
As I responded to your post then, I checked BOM before I left.
As I said don't trust the reports of weather to be accurate at this time of year in that post.
And believe me I took it very serious...

What I will say that was very good to see was other yakkers keeping an eye out for people still on the water and doing the drive by to see that all were in safe.
That's all well and good, but I don't think it's appropriate in a safety "sticky" I cringe when people use that line "Harden up" as I really don't think kayaking needs any heroes out there and if a newbie reads it they may think that it's ok to "Harden Up" and head out in far from ideal conditions. I have now added Vikodins report from the same day to show how bad it can really get out there and what can go wrong.
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Re: How quickly can the weather change?

Post by Jenko »

Good to see everyone safe Kelly & Jarard, but I would like to add that it's not only the sea that can kick up quick, I've seen shallow lakes like Lake Tooliorook go from flat as a sh!t carters hat to as rough as guts in minutes. Another popular spot which can get really nasty and can catch out people not familiar with the place is Mallacoota...been caught out there myself.
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Re: How quickly can the weather change?

Post by cruiser »

Jenko wrote:Good to see everyone safe Kelly & Jarard, but I would like to add that it's not only the sea that can kick up quick, I've seen shallow lakes like Lake Tooliorook go from flat as a sh!t carters hat to as rough as guts in minutes. Another popular spot which can get really nasty and can catch out people not familiar with the place is Mallacoota...been caught out there myself.
Yeah one of the tradies from work was up at Tooliorook with a big westerlie blowing not so long ago and he said you could have gone surfing in front of the boat ramp .I think bays and lakes can be more treacherous with sudden wind changes than open water sometimes .There is a strong message being said here and thats no matter how good the conditions look on the day or what the forcast says always be prepared for the worse ,lets face it we live in Victoria and as we know our weather can be all over the shop ,and in particular from about this time till about the end of summer.Be safe on the water yakkers

cheers cruiser
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Re: How quickly can the weather change?

Post by GoneFishn »

cruiser wrote:
Jenko wrote:Good to see everyone safe Kelly & Jarard, but I would like to add that it's not only the sea that can kick up quick, I've seen shallow lakes like Lake Tooliorook go from flat as a sh!t carters hat to as rough as guts in minutes. Another popular spot which can get really nasty and can catch out people not familiar with the place is Mallacoota...been caught out there myself.
Yeah one of the tradies from work was up at Tooliorook with a big westerlie blowing not so long ago and he said you could have gone surfing in front of the boat ramp .I think bays and lakes can be more treacherous with sudden wind changes than open water sometimes .There is a strong message being said here and thats no matter how good the conditions look on the day or what the forcast says always be prepared for the worse ,lets face it we live in Victoria and as we know our weather can be all over the shop ,and in particular from about this time till about the end of summer.Be safe on the water yakkers

cheers cruiser
Very true. I am mystified as to why people think "fishing in the fresh" is any safer. Some of the lakes and rivers that some people fish/kayak in can be more dangerous then the bays or ocean. Highland lakes and rivers icey cold water, submerged snags that if you do happen to go in the drink you could be caught up in the snags/submerged timber, and when the wind whips up on a lake the chop is usually a lot closer and stands up making it a lot harder to deal with,have experianced this on lake Purrumbete.
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Re: How quickly can the weather change?

Post by ELM »

:wave1: G'day Jaryd, great to read you came out of this with just your ego dented and a lesson or two learn't, shame the video did not have the roll :lol: . Like many of us, we do learn (or at least did) learn the hard way, but we always practice and at least try to prepare ourselves before taking on such conditions.
Jenko wrote:Good to see everyone safe Kelly & Jarard, but I would like to add that it's not only the sea that can kick up quick, I've seen shallow lakes like Lake Tooliorook go from flat as a sh!t carters hat to as rough as guts in minutes. Another popular spot which can get really nasty and can catch out people not familiar with the place is Mallacoota...been caught out there myself.
Only last year on Victorian lakes, was it lake Eldon, cannot remember the other name, there were two lives lost (kayakers) and another barely survived, due to bad weather conditions. Another experienced yak fisherman in QLD also lost due to poor conditions on a lake.

Then the two lives lost on the same bay as these video's were shot (PPB), just how quick it can change.

Any open mass of water has the potential to turn nasty in poor conditions, and one of the biggest threats is where we head for safety, the shoreline. Unless you are paddling/pedaling directly into the weather/wind, generally the shore line is the shallowest (but do not dismiss shallow reefs or sand bars, as they two will have the same effect). Also take into account the size of a wave and what actually is a wave.
A wave is not a mass of water moving, it is energy moving through the water mass, and where deeper water has somewhere for that energy to be lost, shallow water does not. When that energy moves through deeper water, it is slow and spreads out as it reaches down deeper. However, as that energy moves into more shallow water, it builds up height as well as speed, along with the water it is traveling through.
That energy has to go somewhere and it spares no mercy to anything floating on the surface. One wrong move (as both Vodakin and I can attest to), it will slam you down before you can say, "I stuffed up". What happens from there, is a bl##dy lot of luck, whether you have practiced and are at "least" partially prepared will play a big part in your safety.

If you take notice of the guys whom are always launching through heavy surf, they carry very minimal (apart from safety) equipment, and what they do carry is stored inside the hull. When they head through the surf, everything is stored below and it should be the same if you find yourself caught out in rough conditions. The very moment you realise it is going to get nasty, everything above the deck that will fit below and is not needed, should be placed inside the hull and everything else that is not needed, should be strapped down. Also at that very same time, fishing should stop, and your only priority should be to get on dry land as soon and as safely as possible. Think about the shoreline and not necessarily about the place you launched from, what will the coastal fringe be like, is the beach where you launched from open, or are there any small bays that may offer better protection (don't forget, bay entrances are often shallow and can have the potential to have similar wave speed and height as a surf break). It may be safer to head for the protection of a different launch site and then call or ask for assistance from there.

Looking at Jaryd's video and trying to get something from it; His losses would have been far less if the rods/holders, net etc were all stowed inside the hull when he first realized he had made a mistake by going out. Personal safety (including but not restricted to), entanglement, being hooked on a lure, even a puncture wound from a broken rod, reaching for equipment washed overboard, increases ten fold if the equipment isn't stowed below deck.
If the equipment was stowed, Jaryd would not have even had to try to recover the net in the first place, he would have been able to give 85% of his time, energy and thoughts to reading the water and attempting to maintain balance (15% lost to adrenalin enjoying the ride by the sound of it :evilgrin: ;) ).

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Re: How quickly can the weather change?

Post by vikodin »

Great comments once again Eddie and some really important points to consider.
Yeah it was a shame i didn't have the camera going for the roll over but was just my point and shoot camera (fuji xp20)

Your right with my complacency and only having an 85% focus on my surrounds for the most part.
Going by the fact I was holding a hand held camera filming with one hand you may have been generous :shhh:

Watching the waves is the most important thing to do in this situation and at the point of the roll over I was only about 15% aware of my surroundings.
The net had fallen off various times over the 3km trek back in, but the "last time" was at a point where I had changed course and was now travelling with the wind and waves, so as "most of the waves were behind me" out of my peripheral vision and I suppose you might say over confidence finally caught up with me. :oops:

I recently removed all my rod leashes as I thought that they were a safety risk.
(what might have happened if i got caught up on one of these i'm glad i will never know)
What i will be doing is adding some clips to my rocket launches and clipping the rods in there to secure them for travel.

As you stated about trolling lures in a rod holder in 27 knot winds and swell, probably not a great idea hey ;)
Being impaled :oops: or even hooking a big fish would have been a nightmare to get towed around or pull up in those conditions.
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Re: How quickly can the weather change?

Post by ELM »

You were holding the camera, done a good job cobber :up:
Over confident, been there done that!!
Complacency, been there done that!!!
Catches up with most of us, and the boundary, while we expect it to be quite grey, can become very black or white.

Waves from behind are the worst. I found on the AI if I could keep the bow punching into the waves and wind, then not a worry (to a point) and was often over confident in what I was doing. To turn around with my butt at the mercy of the wind and waves was just crazy, and yes you are right, if you also keep trolling and actually hook something large enough to tow you, you lose so much control (if there really is in the first place). If a kayak capsizes out deep and it is blowing hard, expect to be on your own for a very long time, capsize close to shore. While land may be close, kayak, gear, and ex-passenger are going to get smashed.

Eddie
When we say it's BIG RED SEASON, we don't mean a big red blood stain on the bay,
GET YOUR LIGHTS ON + YOUR PFD'S.

Happy Sailing Fishing and keep blowing bubbles.
Cheers
Eddie

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