Hobie rudder control problem under sail in fresh wind-10+kn

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dchan
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Hobie rudder control problem under sail in fresh wind-10+kn

Post by dchan »

Bought myself a hobie sail and tried sailing a couple of weeks ago with my Outfitter. I found that when the wind is up, it was very difficult to maintain direction even with the larger sail rudder. The set up included turbo fin at the middle and standard fin at the front both down.
This problem is extremely bad when the wind is from the right hand side (on starboard tack). This was a lot of back pressure on the rudder control and the kayak always tried to turn into the wind (left). After the sailing trip, the turn left cord actually became a little lose because of the consistent tension.
After loading the kayak back on the roof, I work out the problem was due to the rudder control design. The rudder control mechanism is cone shade (see diagram). To turn left the cord pulls on the outer edge of the cone. But to turn right the cord pulls on the centre point of the cone, therefore a much less leverage.
When the wind is from the right, the kayak is being push to the left. Therefore the rudder is pushed by the water to the right and tends to turn the kayak to the right (back towards the wind and no sail power).
Also, when the wind is up, the furling system (you tube design) does not work because the wind push the sail hard against the mast. The fiction would not let the sail roll around the mast. The mast was also pushed hard against the sail mount hole and would not turn. The only working furler was my son who sat in front.
My intended solution for rudder control is to drill a hole at the edge of the rudder and use a set of cord to pull the rudder and hold it in position.
Interest to know anyone else has this problem. :thumbsup:
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squidgyflicker
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Re: Hobie rudder control problem under sail in fresh wind-10

Post by squidgyflicker »

dchan wrote:Bought myself a hobie sail and tried sailing a couple of weeks ago with my Outfitter. I found that when the wind is up, it was very difficult to maintain direction even with the larger sail rudder. The set up included turbo fin at the middle and standard fin at the front both down.
This problem is extremely bad when the wind is from the right hand side (on starboard tack). This was a lot of back pressure on the rudder control and the kayak always tried to turn into the wind (left). After the sailing trip, the turn left cord actually became a little lose because of the consistent tension.
After loading the kayak back on the roof, I work out the problem was due to the rudder control design. The rudder control mechanism is cone shade (see diagram). To turn left the cord pulls on the outer edge of the cone. But to turn right the cord pulls on the centre point of the cone, therefore a much less leverage.
When the wind is from the right, the kayak is being push to the left. Therefore the rudder is pushed by the water to the right and tends to turn the kayak to the right (back towards the wind and no sail power).
Also, when the wind is up, the furling system (you tube design) does not work because the wind push the sail hard against the mast. The fiction would not let the sail roll around the mast. The mast was also pushed hard against the sail mount hole and would not turn. The only working furler was my son who sat in front.
My intended solution for rudder control is to drill a hole at the edge of the rudder and use a set of cord to pull the rudder and hold it in position.
Interest to know anyone else has this problem. :thumbsup:
sail boats wanting to turn into the wind is some what normal unless they have hydraulic steering, hobie wild cats,hobie wave's,adventure and tandem islands they all do it thats why you need to maintain contact with the controls...as for the rest of it i dont know lol
dchan
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Re: Hobie rudder control problem under sail in fresh wind-10

Post by dchan »

Thanks James
The problem of Hobie rudder control is that there is very limited room for right hand turn control because of the handle can only go as far as the side wall.
I found that when there is decent wind (when the kayak moves at good speed without pedaling), even if I hold the handle hard against the side wall, there is very little control over the kayak. I assume that this is due to the stretch of the cord and the give of the pulley system. May be this is the reason that the sail kit manual the kayak becomes hard to control when wind is >10 mph.
The only way to regain some control was to pedal hard to reduce side way drift. :thumbsup:
squidgyflicker
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Re: Hobie rudder control problem under sail in fresh wind-10

Post by squidgyflicker »

dchan wrote:Thanks James
The problem of Hobie rudder control is that there is very limited room for right hand turn control because of the handle can only go as far as the side wall.
I found that when there is decent wind (when the kayak moves at good speed without pedaling), even if I hold the handle hard against the side wall, there is very little control over the kayak. I assume that this is due to the stretch of the cord and the give of the pulley system. May be this is the reason that the sail kit manual the kayak becomes hard to control when wind is >10 mph.
The only way to regain some control was to pedal hard to reduce side way drift. :thumbsup:
Yeah I see how that would be a problem...tighten control lines might help or maybe upgrade to the bigger rudder or even to the new island rudder...is there a way to relocate rudder control to an unrestricted position perhaps ?
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Re: Hobie rudder control problem under sail in fresh wind-10

Post by tonystott »

You could always adjust the rudder lines so that when the rudder is straight ahead, the lever is pointed a bit away from the wall, so you get enough travel in both directions. Your brain will quickly forget that the tiller points a bit to one side.

You can also ease the sheet a fraction, which will reduce pressure on the rudder, with little loss of speed.
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Smish
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Re: Hobie rudder control problem under sail in fresh wind-10

Post by Smish »

I don't have a Hobie but have designed a sailing rig that can handle 20+ knot winds, especially downwind with the sail out to one side you'll have no control unless you have a substantial rudder and robust steering. I don't know how many sq ft your sail is but with the 36sq ft sail on my rig (which has a mast and boom) downwind there's a lot of force trying to spin the yak up into the wind, especially with a boom the sail acts like a lever, shouldn't be quite as bad with a Hobie sail because it doesn't have a boom but you'll still have the same problem. The simple fact is that to control the yak under sail downwind you need a BIG rudder especially in any wind over 15 knots and everything that supports the rudder has to be beefed up otherwise you start breaking things. The rudder I built for my rig is about 65cm long and about 24cm wide, and can now sail reasonably comfortably in 15-20 knots although ideally I like to sail at 12-15.

Cheers,

Smish
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Re: Hobie rudder control problem under sail in fresh wind-10

Post by Yakass »

Sounds like your rudder needs to be re-calibrated to even up left and right turning. Tightening those lines should help to. But what will probably help even more is the new Hobie furling kit. If the boat becomes difficult to steer, furl a little sail in. Helps a lot. The furling kit will be ready for purchase in about a week.
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