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The evolution of VYAK

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Re: The evolution of VYAK

Postby sog » 21 Sep 2012, 17:14

personally, I'm happy if we just continue as is and just have informal get-togethers
I'm already a member of a fishing club (Altona Boating and Angling Club) and am a member because the club has a facility for it's members to use (clubhouse and bar)
The proposed club wouldn't offer that so I see no point in it
stay informal ..... theres nothing stopping groups of blokes meeting up and going fishing
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Re: The evolution of VYAK

Postby Jenko » 21 Sep 2012, 17:38

Has anyone actually priced how much it would cost for either the forum or a club to insure kayak fishermen, I would think that it would be astronomical thus killing off ideas of a club, if it isn't expensive, why not take out insurance to cover the forum comps. Either way money would have to be raised to pay for this.
To the people saying they will never pay, obviously you never been sued and looking at loosing everything....I have and it's not something I would ever want to go thru again, so I would never expect anyone on here to put themselves in that position just so I could win a pkt plastics.
Any person organising a get together and mention the word "Competition" then opens themself up to litigation, might not be from one of the people who turn up, but if someone dies/seriously injured, it could be the not so forgiving family.
I see waivers mentioned a couple of times.....NOT worth the paper they are written on in a court of law .... been there done that.
Scrap competitions and just fish, keep the forum as is....the best one on the net.
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Re: The evolution of VYAK

Postby Windknot » 21 Sep 2012, 18:01

I say just let VYAK remain as a meeting place for Victorian yakers. A place where we can chew the fat and if we're lucky enough to catch some decent fish, a place where we can post some photos, etc. IMO, we don't need a club, but if some of us want one, then by all means, they should go for it.

I was a founding member of a club about 5 years back and it was bloody hard work setting it up. The rules and regulations are unbelievable. I certainly wouldn't want to go through that again. It's just not worth it, considering that we can do everything we want to do right now.

I would never join another club. It becomes too political. Personalities begin to clash and nothing runs smoothly. Maybe it was just me. :)
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Re: The evolution of VYAK

Postby bilby » 21 Sep 2012, 18:19

Personally i'm glad this has happened, i'm not a big competition fan, i just like getting out with the fine people from this forum to go chase some fish and have a bit of fun, plus as stated a few pages back theres heaps of comps available to those who do like to compete.
I joined Vyak on day one, i think i was one of first 10 members and i've seen it grow to what it is today, lets just leave a good thing alone, lets just fish and have a great social time.
Also big cudos to the original mods, Mitch, Will, Hatters you guys have done a great job and i fully understand your decision.
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Re: The evolution of VYAK

Postby The Fishin' Musician » 21 Sep 2012, 18:52

The issues as I see it is that the Admin and some others of this forum want to have an association to go along with it.

There is a fair bit of value in that, a proper club/association would develop the art of kayak fishing a lot further than a forum, simply because clubs have members who meet regularly, vote on rules, agree on activities and can plan enough to create a calendar of events that can be organised for. It also enables kayak fishers in Victoria to have the possibility of a spokesman, an officer to chat on behalf of the association to the media, and a body of elected secretaries and presidents that could meet with other groups to work on possible joint projects, like say, a submission for opening up Devil Bend with another recreational group, canoeist perhaps. Or arrange mixed member paddle training days with the Victorian Sea Kayakers. Or possibly a joint event at Eildon with the Dandenong Trout Ticklers. Sharing experiences, learning from each other, recruiting members.

As a forum, Victorian kayak fishermen have no one to represent our particular needs and concerns and with all respect to the Admin/Mod team, they aren't elected, so who feels that they can truly represent the rest of us? Having a elected group of people in an association changes that, we may not like a decision, ie, a submission to DPI on fish limits, or having a chat to the media about why we shouldn't have to sit a VHF radio test. But at least we would have had the chance to participate in it with a vote and a proper face to face discussion, things that are easier to do in person and can go so bad in a discussion thread.

So there a are few good reasons to have a Victorian kayak fishing club. But I don't think it should be lead or driven by the Admin/Mod team. Not because they are people of poor character or any rubbish like that, but this site needs to be friendly with, but indepandent of the association. What I'm thinking here is that members here that don't join the club may quickly become alienated by Mods and club members talking about fun times at events, and eventually deciding that this forum is just about the association and leaving and going elsewhere, perhaps starting their own forum for non-club members.

Anyway. just some thoughts.
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Re: The evolution of VYAK

Postby maverick » 21 Sep 2012, 19:02

Some very solid and valid points there FM and the only comment I can make is that I believe haTTers and Widsa don't want to be involved directly with a club. They have just offered the forum as a place to get a club started and assist if they can. In fact Widsa has said he will help, but won't be involved (correct me Widsa & haTTers).

So I think the issues raised in your last paragraph won't be an issue as it is my understanding that the forum and a club would be completely separate identities run by completely diffferent people.
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Re: The evolution of VYAK

Postby Babylon » 21 Sep 2012, 19:04

maverick wrote:Some very solid and valid points there FM and the only comment I can make is that I believe haTTers and Widsa don't want to be involved directly with a club. They have just offered the forum as a place to get a club started and assist if they can. In fact Widsa has said he will help, but won't be involved (correct me Widsa & haTTers).

So I think the issues raised in your last paragraph won't be an issue as it is my understanding that the forum and a club would be completely separate identities run by completely diffferent people.

What he said.
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Re: The evolution of VYAK

Postby Widsa » 21 Sep 2012, 20:14

maverick wrote:Some very solid and valid points there FM and the only comment I can make is that I believe haTTers and Widsa don't want to be involved directly with a club. They have just offered the forum as a place to get a club started and assist if they can. In fact Widsa has said he will help, but won't be involved (correct me Widsa & haTTers).

So I think the issues raised in your last paragraph won't be an issue as it is my understanding that the forum and a club would be completely separate identities run by completely diffferent people.


Correct!

We are just putting it out there as an avenue for anyone to take up if they wish.
As we have cut out the comps now its a way people who enjoy that kind of thing can continue to do so if they wish.
I dont fish comps, have done the tea tree, but probably won’t in future.
I may fish with mates during tea tree but I won’t enter the comp.

With the massive growth in kayak fishing I feel that a body, such as The fishing Musician has outlined will happen weather VYAK likes it or not.
I merely suggested that for those of you who are interested we can use the forum as a launch pad to create the Association.
I will not be a board member of the committee and neither will the other admin team as far as I know.
I have offered to help out with forming it, give ideas, and share my knowledge of the research I have done.

There is nothing fishy about this, no hidden deals, nothing...
If you read the original aim of the forum in some of the very first posts I stated that VYAK was created by Victorian kayakers for Victorian kayakers.
I stated that I/admin do not own this forum, each and every member does as it is you who create it and make it what it is.
This is why VYAK has grown to be what it has.
We have always had the aim of keeping it free (it still is and always will be) and giving everything back to the members.

I know this has caused people to become worried or defensive but please don’t go there its merely a discussion nothing more.
The only thing that has changed is we won’t be putting on comps anymore.
So please don’t direct this thread as an attack on VYAK or create division, its not what we set out to do.

We merely wanted to announce the change, why, and have a proactive discussion on what people think about starting an incorporated association.
If the incorporated association, club, organisation.... whatever it is doesn’t happen it is no skin off my back and VYAK will continue on its merry way either way.

Don’t shoot the messenger!...

Again please read this http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/clubs-and-not-for-profits/incorporated-associations/become-an-incorporated-association
Personally the only reason I would go for it is:
Kayak anglers would get a voice.
-opening up devils bend, getting ramps/ access to spots.
-argue with the government if they were to try and put a rego on kayaks or do something silly like that.
-Increase safety awareness (A huge percentage of kayak fisherman probably dont even know about VYAK).
-Argue against marine parks, super trawlers etc.

Its all good to sit on the forum and say how pissed off we are at certain decisions that effect us but what difference does that really make?
My thoughts were that if VYAK was to help launch the Association, the numbers would be greater giving it momentum to move faster towards the above goals.

Sorry for the rant.

Widsa.
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Re: The evolution of VYAK

Postby neilmny » 21 Sep 2012, 20:44

I'd just like to say (re iterate :? ) my appreciation of the great job the mods and admin guys do running this excellent forum.
Thank you all it is very much appreciated. :up: :up: :up:
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Re: The evolution of VYAK

Postby Widsa » 21 Sep 2012, 20:51

neilmny wrote:I'd just like to say (re iterate :? ) my appreciation of the great job the mods and admin guys do running this excellent forum.
Thank you all it is very much appreciated. :up: :up: :up:


Thanks mate, we do try our best.
And ill say again thank you all for making the forum what it is, without you it wouldnt exist.
The members do most of the work.
You guys make it a pleasure to run as we barely have to moderate anything or step in to lock threads etc..
We really are a great crew and the banter that goes on here is awesome! I love it. :thumbsup:
Somebody just back of you while you are fishing is as bad as someone looking over your shoulder while you write a letter to your girl. ~Ernest Hemingway
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