Wind Farm Surprise

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Yako
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Wind Farm Surprise

Post by Yako »

With all the wind we have been having, the thought of having a wind generator seemed like a great idea as you can get smaller ones for home use.
Well I must say I was quite shocked to come across this video clip from Today Tonight Adelaide:
https://www.todaytonightadelaide.com.au ... oison-wind
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shane
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Re: Wind Farm Surprise

Post by shane »

Typical sensationalist perspective from the likes of TT. The issue isn't rare earths, wind turbines, batteries or mobile phones. It's Chinese environmental regulation and industrial standards. The same can be applied to a lot of their other industries including coal fired power, which kills hundreds of thousands there each year.
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Yako
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Re: Wind Farm Surprise

Post by Yako »

I'm not sure why we had to shut down Hazelwood when other countries are pumping out tons of toxic waste of all sorts.
I understand coal fired is not clean but surely with the production of the wind turbines, solar panels, batteries etc it's manageable until we get something more environmentally friendly.
There's also the issue of end of life with these items, how do we safely dispose or recycle these items.
I know little about the manufacturing process of these things & I don't want to rely on TV shows & media for this type & other important information, so any valid sources you or others could recommend would be helpful to read.
Thanks
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Re: Wind Farm Surprise

Post by mazman »

Yako wrote:I'm not sure why we had to shut down Hazelwood when other countries are pumping out tons of toxic waste of all sorts.
I understand coal fired is not clean but surely with the production of the wind turbines, solar panels, batteries etc it's manageable until we get something more environmentally friendly.
There's also the issue of end of life with these items, how do we safely dispose or recycle these items.
I know little about the manufacturing process of these things & I don't want to rely on TV shows & media for this type & other important information, so any valid sources you or others could recommend would be helpful to read.
Thanks
I believe hazelwood was shutdown because it was old and no one wanted to spend the coin on the refurb not because it was coal
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shane
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Re: Wind Farm Surprise

Post by shane »

Yako wrote:I'm not sure why we had to shut down Hazelwood when other countries are pumping out tons of toxic waste of all sorts.
I understand coal fired is not clean but surely with the production of the wind turbines, solar panels, batteries etc it's manageable until we get something more environmentally friendly.
Hazelwood shut down because it had Worksafe orders against it that would have cost hundreds of millions to rectify. It's owners Engie made the call to shut it down based mainly on economics as it wouldn't be viable to maintain. It would be equivalent to trying to keep a clapped out HQ Kingswood on the road as an everyday car.

Coal fired power is actually a very big polluter and causes orders of magnitude more environmental damage than the alternatives (eg http://www.climatecouncil.org.au/upload ... c0aee0.pdf). Stories like the Today Tonight are similar to the spin promoted by the fossil fuel industry as 'look over there' pieces designed to distract and sow doubt while they wring every last dollar out of a dying industry.

In any case it's more economics and engineering that's killing off coal fired power. While existing coal plants can produce power at around $20-40/MWh, that's only because they're fully depreciated. New coal plants will cost up towards $200/MWh, take years to build are risky to finance and we don't have local capability. Whereas new wind farms are being contracted long term for less than $60/MWh and falling rapidly (average wholesale as been around $100/MWh due to reliance on gas). Solar is currently a bit higher cost than wind but is expected to fall more rapidly, reaching costs as low as $20/MWh within around a decade. Even adding in firming costs this makes wind and solar easily the cheapest and healthiest way provide power going forward and that's where the investments going. It's also good for our resources industries with Australia having major reserves of many of the critical minerals required for batteries, motors, solar farms etc.
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Re: Wind Farm Surprise

Post by 4liters »

The problems with coal extend beyond carbon dioxide too. Coal is basically the fossilised stinky sludge from the bottom of a swamp and contains all sorts of stuff that really should be left in the ground and not blown into the atmosphere or waterways.
The paucity of independent monitoring of waste water from coal mines in NSW is leaving communities exposed to decades of pollution, long after mining operations have ceased, Ian Wright, a leading water ecologist, said.

Dr Wright, a senior lecturer at Western Sydney University, found discharges from the Berrima Coal mine, which owner Boral closed after more than a century of operations in 2013, had high concentrations of manganese, zinc and nickel that are hazardous to aquatic ecosystems.

"The impact on the Wingecarribee River biodiversity down-stream of the [Berrima] mine is greater than has been observed in mine drainage from any other Australian coal mine and is very high on an international comparison," Dr Wright said in a submission about the proposed Hume Coal mine for the Berrima region.

Dr Wright told Fairfax Media that contaminants had at least trebled since the mine's closure. Similar post-closure pollution has been evident from other mines, such as the Canyon Colliery in the Grose Valley.

"Berrima is a reminder of what's ahead of us," Dr Wright said. "The EPA regulates this mine but it's completely ineffective, when it was operating and now when it's closed."

The impact from existing or abandoned coal mines is increasing, according the 2016 audit of Sydney's water catchment. Water quality in Lake Burragorang, the city's biggest reservoir, declined for key salinity, nitrogen and other measures since the previous report three years earlier.
http://www.theage.com.au/environment/no ... y0qnj.html
Power stations are the largest source of sulfur dioxide (SO₂), oxides of nitrogen (NOx) and fine particulate matter (PM2.5) in Australia – three toxic pollutants that cause death and disease in humans and harm the environment. Most people I talk to are extremely surprised when they hear the emissions limits imposed on Australian power stations are, for the most part, far less stringent than those in the United States, the European Union and China.

The most shocking we found was mercury limits for some NSW power stations are 666 times higher than those in the US. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Because our emissions limits are so lax, power stations have not had to install pollution reduction technologies that are commonly used overseas to reduce SO₂ and NOx pollution.

As a result, communities are exposed to excessive and preventable levels of toxic pollutants that cause and make worse a range of health impacts, such as lung cancer, heart attack, stroke, asthma and respiratory disease.

"Ultra-super critical" power stations may boast newer technology than the existing old facilities, but they would barely reduce the level of toxic emissions and would still pour out more than a million tonnes of toxic pollution into our air, water and land.
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/coal-t ... xx2tr.html
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Re: Wind Farm Surprise

Post by 4liters »

The other reason we won't see a new coal fired power station is that while climate change is still up for debate on talk back radio, the people whose money is on the line if they finance these things know that a power station is a 40yr + investment and realise that in that timeframe we're almost certain to end most coal fired generation
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Re: Wind Farm Surprise

Post by Yako »

Are Tesla & Neoen still going to build their super LiIon battery for Adelaide?
Hopefully the countries manufacturing the Wind Turbine, Panels & batteries can work with environmental experts (not talking about crazy Greenies) to produce them with minimal negative impact, surely it's possible.
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Re: Wind Farm Surprise

Post by Jenko »

Yako wrote:Are Tesla & Neoen still going to build their super LiIon battery for Adelaide?
Hopefully the countries manufacturing the Wind Turbine, Panels & batteries can work with environmental experts (not talking about crazy Greenies) to produce them with minimal negative impact, surely it's possible.
Only reason Tesla wants to build that battery is so he can suck up to the government and get his hands on our lithium (Australia was the world’s top lithium producer in 2016. It produced 14,300 MT of the metal last year, up 200 MT from the year before.) you just watch, it will be mined and sold off dirt cheap just like everything else.....and he wants it for his S#!^ heap electric cars which make more pollution than they save.
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Yako
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Re: Wind Farm Surprise

Post by Yako »

Thanks Gary.
I think you're right about tesla just wanting our raw materials.
Not a day goes buy that one reads something about more of our great land being pillaged while the average Aussie is getting ripped off. Now we're being told we'll have to work till we're 70 but hey it's ok if you're a bludging migrant we'll give you heaps Oh & please have lots of wives & kids & we'll give you more for free.
If you think I'm talking rubbish go check Bob Katters speech in parliament dated 14/08/17
Here's another's link to it :
http://www.scorchinghotnews.com/katter- ... -australia
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